over my dead body do i want phon in, but how do i tell labor what i want? i did that putting greens first previously, am i not right to do the same here?

Voting is an extremely vague way to "tell Labor" anything, whether by voting Green, Reason, Shooters, Socialist or PHON. I assume their reaction to a rise in PHON would be to double down on anti-immigration rhetoric, not to repress Islam. (I'm not exactly sure what you envision, policy-wise, when you say "anti-Islam")

But you raise a great question - how do you tell Labor what you want? Voting doesn't send a clear message, nor are any of our votes individually worth much at all. And specifically to Labor, their own rank-and-file majority have been overruled by the Albanese leadership on some very significant matters. If their own members are struggling to be heard, I don't recommend that as a way to sway Labor either - I believe some other "left" parties have working representation, but from discussions I've had with Labor members at pubs, I don't have faith in their internal democracy. It comes down to other forms of power.

So, we organise to gain power for ourselves - for Labor in particular, a major example is through worker unions with the power to combine resources and ultimately to withdraw labour. In fact, this is how major historical wins were made in anti-racism laws here, or eviction protections for renters, and even lots of Whitlam's infamous social policies - governments did fuck-all until unions put pressure on them. Same with other wins like the Green Bans. And it's not just worker unions, but other forms of collective action, like Erskineville's Road Wars which have probably saved many lived by now.

The bottom line is obvious: telling a gigantic political party of millions what you want requires more than just voting.

[–] Eyekaytee@aussie.zone 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Damn we're off to a bad start

Voting is an extremely vague way to “tell Labor” anything

I completely disagree with this, voting is the main way to show support to a political party and it's platform, if you're not getting votes it's pretty clear people don't agree with what you're offering

Labor are still butthurt over Bill Shorten trying to reduce house prices 7 years ago and losing an unlosable election because of it, just like how businesses ultimately listen to money and your biggest weapon is where you spend your money, politicians listen to votes and your biggest weapon is where your vote goes

You can see the impact PHON has, even though they only got a tiny % of the pie in SA the big parties are keenly aware of them and why people are voting for them

“I also think we saw Labor voters moving to One Nation,” he said.

Mr Malinauskas dodged questions about any future federal pivot, stating he was “very grateful” to be Premier. But he had a message for his federal and state colleagues.

“You’ve got to make sure that, first and foremost, the economic settings are right to ensure that a growing economy doesn’t leave people behind and actually delivers a dividend for more people to have a degree of prosperity in their lives,” he said.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/coalition-election-policy-rethink-opened-220634976.html?guccounter=1

And specifically to Labor, their own rank-and-file majority have been overruled by the Albanese leadership on some very significant matters

That works right up until it doesn't, there's nothing to suggest labor couldn't have a giant swing against them at the next election just like when the greens managed to get through in 22, sadly most people don't care for gaza quite as much as the Greens for some reason think they do and people didn't care for what they were offering and thus the decline, tbh the greens should really be shining right now, absolute shambles from them

Program: Is this the start of Pauline Hanson’s 'orange wave'?

https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/abc-news-daily/is-this-the-start-of-pauline-hansons-orange-wave/106487270

To be honest I don't think I can vote PHON first preference because my god I might throw up but i'm certainly not happy about it

In terms of unions I'd be more inclined to support them if they better represented me, the demands they seem to levy are egregious that have me siding with businesses going damn that's crazy

[–] eureka@aussie.zone 2 points 3 days ago

voting is the main way to show support to a political party and it’s platform, if you’re not getting votes it’s pretty clear people don’t agree with what you’re offering

politicians listen to votes

I don't disagree with either of these statements. Nor do they disagree with my statement that votes are a vague message - if I tell you (and it's the truth) that the Greens weren't in my top two preferences in 2025 (nor Labor, nor Liberal) - what information does that give them? What would the Greens do if they wanted my vote? All my vote really says is, "I prefer this other party", but not which policies I like, or even if it's the policies I have a problem with. I know people who vote Liberal but are anti-privatisation! I know people who vote Liberal but are environmentally progressive! I know someone who voted for the opposition one year to "give someone else a go"! Even just the differing policies of each party are complicated, let alone other factors like personalities.

I don't agree that voting is our biggest weapon, but it's one everyone can use without any risk, so it's certainly potent and important! Our biggest weapon is our labour. If you, me and millions of other people all voice a unified demand and stop going to work, that's both a more accurate weapon (they know precisely what we want changed) and a weapon that can bring a government to its knees - look at revolutions overseas started by strikes. And it also works against companies which don't even let us vote!

You can see the impact PHON has, even though they only got a tiny % of the pie in SA the big parties are keenly aware of them and why people are voting for them

The following quote from Labor is extremely vague. Why did people vote for One Nation? Was it frustration with housing costs? General cost of living pressures? Reaction to the firearm laws after the Bondi massacre? Opposition to Islam? A hatred of Arabic people (Muslim or not) or Asians? Opposition to all immigration, including English? Simply sending a message of dissatisfaction to the Liberals? A disdain towards conventional, formal politicians? Media exposure and familiarity? (some people can't even name our Prime Minister, so don't underestimate this!)

tbh the greens should really be shining right now, absolute shambles from them

Absolutely. While I do think they're right to support activism around Gaza (even if it comes from the argument of "stop wasting our resources on foreign wars"), it shouldn't be at their forefront.

the demands they seem to levy are egregious that have me siding with businesses going damn that’s crazy

It's worth pointing out that sometimes (and maybe this doesn't apply to the ones you're thinking of) they come to the table with high demands with the intention to settle on a lower demand.

Not all unions are the same, nor are all organisers the same (had a string of bad ones until recently) so I'm fully aware that some are bad at representing employees. And it's a damn shame. It makes a feedback loop where a bad union experience makes people dismissive of the actions necessary to improve the union. I'm lucky enough to be in one where we've recently managed to reorganise and volunteer enough to build campaigns where fellow employees were able to instruct us with their demands (and you bet thousands of us were asking for a 10% pay rise that we had to temper to something more realistic). But until I volunteered to help build this reorganisation, I did feel disempowered and unrepresented, and hesitated to even join the union, despite being a unionist.

The tough answer is, if institutions aren't giving you power, you have to build it.