this post was submitted on 19 May 2026
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Lemmy Shitpost

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[–] cowboydan@quokk.au 238 points 2 months ago (5 children)
[–] Triumph@fedia.io 96 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 270 points 2 months ago (4 children)

For the lazy who don't want to look it up

[–] WesternInfidels@feddit.online 100 points 2 months ago (6 children)

It feels so out of the blue, so unnecessary. Like the writer had been bored. It's difficult to imagine that this didn't jolt readers out of the story, even at the time.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 73 points 2 months ago (13 children)

Languages change. Moron, idiot and imbecile used to be medical terms. Gay used to simply mean happy and excited. A fag used to be a term for a cigarette.

I really doubt it would have appeared in a mainstream children's book if it were seen as at all offensive.

Words like "bugger" and "damn" used to be extremely offensive curses. Now they're often used as very mild expressions of annoyance to avoid using the serious ones.

[–] FishFace@piefed.social 45 points 2 months ago (11 children)

Fag still is a term for a cigarette...

[–] starik@lemmy.zip 23 points 2 months ago

Yeah, but only in old-timey countries, like England.

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[–] gerryflap@feddit.nl 11 points 2 months ago (16 children)

Exactly. I started reading The Fellowship of the Ring again, and it takes some getting used to that "queer" is used in a completely different way than nowadays.

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[–] DamienGramatacus@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago (7 children)

Weren't idiot, moron and imbecile medical terms specifically used by white scientists to describe black people back in the good old eugenics days of the 1920's America? Language changes sure but it often has very racist roots.

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[–] Scrollone@feddit.it 22 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I mean... there's also a famous Agatha Christie's book that used to have the N-word in its title.

We're viewing these things with our modern eyes. But they didn't have this kind of sensibility those days. It probably felt like using any other word: normal.

I wonder if our grandchildren will feel the same way about something we say normally today.

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[–] Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works 17 points 2 months ago

I doubt whether the vast majority of British readers would’ve been jolted by it - at the time of first publication. It was a word that had been in everyday parlance that got attached to dark “things” as a describer.

Here’s the thing though, go forward maybe 15 years again and you have the 1964 Smethwick constituency election. The winner had a, uhh, memorable slogan: “If you want a n***** for a neighbour, vote Labour.”

It’s worth noting that the “n*****s” in question were, most likely, gonna be from the Punjab. Go figure.

So, yeah, in less than a generation the word in question went from everyday speech with no overt pejorative meaning to the explicitly racist word it is today. It morphed.

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 9 points 2 months ago

I mean it is from 1951. I've seen a lot worse by people who meant it.

It's 4 years before Emmett Till was murdered for example.

[–] zjti8eit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It was England, which never treated the n-world quite like those ungrateful colonials.

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[–] Bane_Killgrind@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 months ago (3 children)

I wonder if Carlin ever tried sneaking that past the censors.

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[–] Gullible@sh.itjust.works 44 points 2 months ago (7 children)

I genuinely don’t even understand what this means. Black people aren’t charcoal black.

[–] OwOarchist@pawb.social 62 points 2 months ago (9 children)

Black people aren’t charcoal black.

According to old-timey racists, they are.

[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 39 points 2 months ago

Exactly ... according to old-timey racists in the 1950s ... this is what they imagined about black people

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[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 45 points 2 months ago (1 children)

In the 1950s ... to average white people who might have never seen a black person before ... they would imagine this

[–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 27 points 2 months ago (13 children)

I can promise you that the vast majority of white Americans had seen a black person in the 1950s.

[–] f314@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago (6 children)

This is a British book, though

[–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

With the war and influx of American GIs in Britain, not to mention their colonies, I stand by my statement for Britain as well.

What helps in the case of the UK is a larger percentage of their population lives in cities than the US too. Just by the math living in urban areas you're just going to see more people and more people from outside your community will be come in.

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[–] Midnight1938@reddthat.com 31 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Remember the meme about the guy being immune to BnW filter?

[–] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 2 months ago

If you have never actually seen a person with dark skin that's how you might imagine one. Or so I did when I was a kid, growing up in a bunghole village in the impenetrable forests up in northern europe where the darkest skin I'd seen was that greek girl (not very dark at all).

My friend is also charcoal black, so that's definitely a possibility too, human skin is amazing, it can be black-blueish, chocolate, white or red (me in the summer).

[–] TribblesBestFriend@startrek.website 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

They « were » in theatre and movie production at the time. Black American weren’t allowed to play a role so they used white male with charcoal and shoe shine

Fun fact they were some black actor that did black face as a kind of protestation IIRC

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[–] LodeMike@lemmy.today 9 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I'm too lazy even for this. I need a red circle and perhaps some Family Guy to get my attention.

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[–] OriginEnergySux@lemmy.world 36 points 2 months ago

Came for the n-word, stayed for the story. Those silly trains.

[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 32 points 2 months ago (2 children)

That author was definitely a Diesel.

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[–] getFrog@piefed.social 74 points 2 months ago (11 children)

Unironically a great example for explaining the difference between 0 and null

[–] starik@lemmy.zip 12 points 2 months ago

Sadly, it’s not. The other three churn out books riddled with the n-word daily.

[–] webpack@ani.social 9 points 2 months ago

great example of the difference between Some(0) and None

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[–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 53 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Ah yes, "Thomas says the N-word by accident, while singing a rap song" episode, my favorite.

[–] Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world 27 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I'd imagine anyone involved with that decision is dead today. Granted thats around 75 years ago. Still a crazy stat though. Mr. Roger's TILL I DIE.

[–] 58008@lemmy.world 17 points 2 months ago

The intent and impact of the word was a lot different back then, certainly so outside of the US, but still, using a subset of humanity as a stand-in for an adjective is pretty grim stuff. Shows how little was thought of them. Like if the characters had instead become white from a flour mill explosion, it's unlikely they'd have been described as being "as white as scampering little crackers".

[–] turtlesareneat@piefed.ca 13 points 2 months ago (1 children)

There was that Barney coloring book that advocated for blood orgies but they caught it and recalled it fairly quick

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[–] ohulancutash@feddit.uk 12 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

And it wasn’t either of the yank ones.

[–] SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 months ago
[–] PattyMcB@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago (2 children)

He's old and senile so he gets a pass ... right?

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