News and information from Europe πͺπΊ
(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)
(This list may get expanded as necessary.)
Unless they're the only sources, please also avoid The Sun, Daily Mail, any "thinktank" type organization, and non-Lemmy social media (incl. Substack). Don't link to Twitter directly, instead use xcancel.com. For Reddit, use old:reddit:com
(Lists may get expanded as necessary.)
We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.
If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 7 or 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.
If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the admin that applied the rule (check modlog first to find who was it.)
This is where the DIY electronics hobbyist scene in the EU dies.
Good going corpos, you win. I'll just consume your media and goon at home.
e-commerce in Europe is laughably bad no wonder people are turning to Temu and China and abroad in general. It's either Amazon or outdated brick stores with their own archaic tech that works sometimes, and surprises you with a couple extra fees every single checkout.
The only redemption right now is Shopify rollout for boosting small shops which is hard to mess up but even that is being overtaken by scam spam.
The service is just so bad that people will wait 2 weeks for potentially dangerous products and deal with customs just to save cup of coffee worth of money. The service is the issue not anything else.
I use Aliexpress because half the products on amazon are just dropshipper that buy from Aliexpress anyway. Why should I pay more for the same product? But there are genuinely good e-commerce in Europe that sells local products (Zalando for example)
Important bit of information: China gets subsidised parcel fee under an agreement of the World Post Association. They pay less for postage than European businesses shipping within the continent.
Why is this not changed? Why all these additional taxes and hoops when they could simply cancels these subsidies?
It's managed by the Universal Postal Union, which is part of the UN, and the organisation has been in effect in one form or another since 1874 with 192 members currently. International treaties between so many countries are extremely difficult to reform. It's much easier to make a new treaty than reform an existing one because there are so many vested interests in the current system.
In this case, the subsidy is designed to help developing countries have fair access to the global post system. But when it was created, it was likely not envisioned that a developing country might become a rich country, nor that the postal system would become such an important part of e-commerce.
They're implicit subsidies.
So here it goes: there's an international treaty saying basically "if a letter from your country is delivered in my contry, I'll deliver it for free and vice versa". So, you pay your national post some "international handling" so they e.g. deliver it to China, but in China the national post is now responsible for distribution and last mile for free, they don't see a part of your postage.
So it's subsidized now by the Chinese post basically: they only charge cents for "international shipping" to their citizens and businesses, last mile is handled for free from the local national post offices.
That system obviously was designed to work frictionless and easy in a time, where there was no globalized market to speak of.
It's not so easy to reform and just cancel it might be a disadvantage as well: then all your other mailing stuff needs renegotiating as well. Just imagine the horror in canceling the treaty, and then you need to sit down with dealmaker Trump who sees an opportunity in order to get the US Post to handle your mail π±
Good question. I guess you have to ask those responsible.
Look at who funded and lobbied for this, this isn't about protecting EU manufacturing, most of these companies manufacture their goods outside the EU and charge exorbitant prices for them.
This is once again taking the power out of the proles hands.
| Parent Corporate Member | Key Retail Brands & Subsidiaries | Annual Revenue |
|---|---|---|
| Schwarz Group | Lidl, Kaufland, PreZero | β¬185.6 Billion |
| REWE Group | BILLA, REWE, Penny, Toom Baumarkt, BIPA | β¬100.4 Billion |
| Ahold Delhaize | Albert Heijn, Delhaize, Alfa Beta, Mega Image, Maxi, Albert | β¬92.35 Billion |
| Carrefour Group | Carrefour, Carrefour Market, Express, AtacadΓ£o, Cora, Match | β¬91.48 Billion |
| Tesco PLC | Tesco, Tesco Express, One Stop | β¬82 Billion |
| Inditex | Zara, Pull&Bear, Massimo Dutti, Bershka, Stradivarius | β¬36 Billion |
| H&M Group | H&M, COS, Monki, Weekday, & Other Stories, ARKET | β¬21 Billion |
| Colruyt Group | Colruyt, Okay, Spar | β¬11.19 Billion |
Credit to https://www.reddit.com/user/Interesting_Pie_319/ for the data.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Aliexpress/comments/1ugpyoe/i_dug_around_a_bit_and_found_exactly_who_is/
The difference is that these companies have to adhere to EU regulations, e.g. on harmful chemicals. Cheap Chinese products famously do not, often times to an absurd degree, exceeding limits by thousands of times.
All companies selling in the EU market have to adhere to the General Product Safety Regulation even if the product and vendor is Chinese. The problem here is not the law, but enforcing the law.
Then regulate the products and impose fines?
and not forget sites like temu burn money to sell this stuff cheap while these have to actually run a profitable business. But 100 Billion Alibaba and 50 Billion Temu are the good guys in this, i guess
Kinda seems like a tax on the poor for being unable to afford better products.
You don't get better products. You get products without safety testing, warranty or support. Clothes from some eastern brands have high amounts of chemicals that are forbidden in Europe because they cause cancer or infertility. Some type of escooter was banned in the UK some years ago because the dodgy electronics where responsible for multiple house fires. Iot devices or computers from some no name brand won't get updates if a hacker finds exploits to mine Bitcoins on it, or spy on you and capture your logins from your cheap temu wifi router.
You should reread their comment, you agree with each other.
You are right, sorry. I did not have my coffee yet.
The only people that can import cheap Chinese stuff are corporations... don't you dare bypassing their money making schemes
No, thatβs a very naive and uninformed viewpoint. The EU is being flooding with 100s of millions of packages with value-free SHEIN and temu stuff, the delivery services even do not know how to handle it anymore. It is a tremendous danger for local industry, it is very bad for the environment. Do some online research, you will be impressed with the impact of these cheap products literally flooding into the European Union.
Aren't those same cheap products coming in through corporations that sell it under some brand at triple the cost?
The "local" industries have already been decimated by the big conglomerates which imported the same cheap Chinese stuff and sold it as a hilarious profit.
It's not the same stuff, though. A lot of these products do not fulfill any product safety law. There have been lots tests of random products sold on these platforms, showing that many are unsafe and/or dangerous (just google). A business sourcing from China has to ensure that sold products are safe and fulfill legal requirements. And yes, for this "service" they charge higher prices, and sometimes even unjustifiedly.
But you will still be able to buy such products, but with an additional 3 euros, I don't see anything changing in terms of safety
Right in the article they cite the analysis has numbers on a few groups of products like protrction equipment, makeup, and whether they pass EU standards. 60%-something do not. That also means 30%-something pass EU standards. That's a lot of quality cheap product. Of course as a consumer you can't tell whether you're getting something from the 35% pile or the 65% one. But that doesn't detract from the point of a lot of the cheap stuff in the category is the same stuff when it comes to EU standards.
Here's an anecdote - years ago I really wanted a magnetic USB cable. Being skeptical of AliExpress stuff, especially electrical, I found a North American brans called Volta. Bought a cable. Cost me CAD $20 or $30. Some time after, I was browsing AliExpress for some specialty ebike parts that aren't imported in Canada, I took a look at the magnetic cables they got. After a few pages of results I found a suspiciously similar cable to the Volta sold by the manufacturer itself. $3-4 for a set with a few magnetic tips. Ordered one. Once it came, I meticulously compared it to the Volta. It was identical in every way. It even failed in the same weak spot after a couple of years of use as the Volta. So yeah, while not everything is the same, not everything is not the same either.
Side note - the AliExpress prices are not the low prices available in other cheaper Chinese domestic retailers. Stuff on AliExpress already has significant markups. Volta did not pay $3-4 for that cable. They prolly paid $0.50-1 if even that much. They made exorbitant profit.
USB cables are actually a great example of where finding a brand with a good name does matter. Lots of cheap cables donβt properly follow the spec and then people end up frying their steam deck or other hardware.
Itβs not so bad for data transfer but a real issue when youβre using them for supplying more power for computers or other expensive devices.
Should be specified that is not specific to Chinese imports, it's to any import from any country outside of EU
In the meantime Chinese companies built warehouses in Europe, which are importing the cheap goods en grosse. You're buying from a Chinese supplier, but the parcel is sent out from Europe.
Much more easy to regulate those. That's kind of the point.
Can they put an exclusion for electronic components? 90% of the shit isn't manufactured in the EU and local companies buy it from China and charge you 10x the price.
Mouser isn't a bad option
on the principle that's fine, but it also means that DHL will add ~~6.50β¬~~ 7.50β¬ fees on top of that here in germany, which you can only pay in cash upon delivery, and they don't even carry change.
edit: it's 7.50
As long as it helps stopping people from buying this Chinese stuff, Iβm fine with it! Buy local, buy ecological, buy less but valuable and durable products.
Maybe it's different in Europe, but in the US, my options are generally buy a Chinese-made product close to directly from the manufacturer via AliExpress or what have you or buy (often the same exact) a Chinese-made product through an American named big box store for 10x or even 25x the price.
For online stores thatβs true, but the retailer is responsible for anything they sell in the US. There will still be some of that same junk, but a lot of those electronics are filtered out from retail because they arenβt certified.
Take a look at what kind of power strips are available online vs in a hardware store.
Buy local, buy ecological
Awesome, show me a local manufacturer who deals with speciality electronics and sensors and does them β¬3-4 apiece.
Not sure about manufacturers but DigiKey, Mouser, Jameco, MicroCenter, and McMaster-Carr are all decent options.
Most will tell you where something is manufactured. Some stuff is from China but they also have stuff from Taiwan, generally better quality in my experience. Some things you can find manufactured in EU or other western countries, but fabs don't exist everywhere for everything.
But at the very least these places are importing items in large quantities so it's still more eco-friendly than having individual nickle-dime stuff flown over entire oceans and continents.
Those are stores. Who also order the components from China, then add surcharges for having them locally available.
Most components on all listed sites will also be 2-3x more expensive than if ordered from manufacturer directly (unless mfg lists them on the site), at which point "buy European" simply becomes "pay 2-3x to a European company for doing what you could be doing on your own".
I mean most passive components will still run you about ten cents per. It's not like that's exorbitant. If you need to order a thousand of them you'll get a bulk discount.
My point was on the environmental aspect. These stores can import them in larger quantities, so it's less fuel consumption in transport than ordering smaller quantities that ship direct from China
Sure, for small components it's logical to go to them - or even to local electronics repair shops as they'll most likely have those parts.
But even Mouser, etc. rarely have the boards I need. For example right now I have a bit of development to do on e-ink integrated platforms. I have two product options: the Lilygo T5S3 Pro, or the M5Stack PaperS3. Mouser etc. will have these on backorder, 2-3 week lead time, and 50-70% more expensive than ordering from the mfg. Meanwhile I can deal with the mfg. and shipping with a much shorter lead time (often as little as 5 days!).
I mean if you can backtrace the specific product you need to the manufacturer and order directly from them, sure that makes sense. At least if you find the product on Mouser, you can be assured of its quality/safety (unless the manufacturer saves its duds for small orders)
What isn't wise would be browsing the Chinese e-commerce sites for the thing you need and then buying the cheapest one. It's kind of a gamble whether it works at all, or whether it burns your house down.
Why?
For example, i can order 25 $ Handguards for my bike, that are 100% identical to the original part, which costs 120 β¬
I'm with you on certain things, but some companies just make a lot of money with overprizing
Am I missing something? The original costs 125 (why do you mention $, in the EU we pay in β¬??). Now you buy them for 25+3+6, so you still make a profit of 91? This new tax is not to prohibit you from buying Chinese. Itβs intended to stop the flow of cheap products coming in, which is eroding European industry at a rapid pace. The choice is yours, do you want to protect our EU industry, or do you want to surrender all jobs China?
It not just per parcel, but per product category. Multiple categories in one parcel multiple times β¬3 customs.