this post was submitted on 11 Apr 2025
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And does this negate the "mirror test" idea? That is, an animal failing to recognise that the creature in the mirror is themselves, but can recognise themselves in water, shows that their problem isn't with the concept of reflectivity or "self", but something about the mirror's version of themselves that they can't quite grasp?

A follow-up question: Does an animal recognise its own shadow, and does this count as a kind of "self-awareness" when their shadow is moving around in the world but they don't lose their mind over it?

Thank you!

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[–] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 15 points 1 day ago* (last edited 38 minutes ago) (1 children)

Two thoughts:

  • You don’t see a reflection in water when you look straight down at it—only when you look at an angle that depends on the refraction index. So when you look at a distant animal in the water and see its reflection below it, that doesn’t mean the animal can see its own reflection. They can see the reflections of other animals in the distance, but they can’t normally see their own.

  • The reflections animals are used to seeing are always mirrored vertically due to the horizontal orientation of the water surface—the upside-down orientation is probably an intrinsic part of their understanding of what a reflection is. So when they see something mirrored horizontally, it’s missing two of what experience has taught them to be fundamental characteristics of reflections—vertical inversion and an oblique viewing angle.

[–] vk6flab@lemmy.radio 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

How do you figure that a water reflection is vertical?

[–] phlegmy@sh.itjust.works 12 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

Because puddles aren't typically seen on walls

[–] Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe 4 points 23 hours ago

Hahahaha, I snorted. Enjoy your upvote.

[–] Sims@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Hm, just a quick thought. Infant animals do get 'surprised', but just accepts their environment pretty quickly. Adult animals won't get surprised if they see themselves in the water, but they will if there's suddenly a Portal 'mirror', showing them selves, in the middle of no-where.

Exploration of 'self' only happens in safety and waterholes are not safe for predators. I don't think most animals have the opportunity/energy to diverge their attention to reflect on their own reflections, while watching for predators. Maybe Elephants and similar safe animals ?

Edit: I think the issue with shadows are the same. Kids can follow, or be scared of their own shadows, but pretty quickly habituates to it, so its brain doesn't react to it all the time and burn off energy.

Neat question/connection btw.