this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2025
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Please go into lots of detail - some of us are taking notes!

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[–] randomwords@futurology.today 79 points 3 days ago (8 children)

So, it's not just theoretical for me. I left the US earlier this year and moved to Iceland. Planning started almost a year before that. It is hard for Americans to move to a lot of European countries, and Iceland isn't an exception.

I hired an immigration attorney in Iceland to help make sure I did everything correctly. That cost about $10k as a retainer. It was worth every penny. If you're taking notes, that's pretty much the only one you need. Every country has different rules and laws regarding Americans moving to their country. And just like in America, if you have an issue with the law, you need to hire an attorney. They will help you understand every relevant law that exists that applies to you that may very well not be available in English. Hire a local expert.

I'm not very young, so I paid to move my stuff here. I also paid to move my electric vehicle because gas costs the equivalent of about $10 per gallon, plus there are some serious CO2 taxes here. That cost about another $20k. About two thirds moving the stuff, and one third moving the car.

In retrospect, moving the stuff was a good idea. I have lots of things that are just incredibly hard to get here, or take forever to get if you want them. And I saved enough money to be worth it. If you look at something like a KitchenAid mixer, it costs the equivalent of $1k here. If I sold my old one for used price and bought a new one here, I'd lose most of a thousand bucks. So you only need to do that a few times to make moving your stuff worth it.

I also saved money on importing my car over just buying a new one, but it was such a fucking hassle that if I were to do it again, I'd have just bought one here. I didn't save enough to make it worth it.

I'm not sure how useful my experience will be now. When I started talking to my immigration attorney, I explained that it seemed likely to me that after trump was reelected that Americans were going to panic and rush for the exits. I felt that it was likely that the countries would respond by doing exactly what America does: freak out about having too many immigrants and change the rules to make it harder to get in.

Based on a recent conversation with my attorney, it seems that I was right. The rules have changed enough that the path that we used for residency has now been more more seriously restricted. The attorney's office was inundated with requests from Americans and they were working 12+ hour days for a few months just trying to respond to all the requests.

I know some folks have strong feelings that people should stay and fight. But I feel like we have fought the good fight for a long time. That went all the way from starting non-profits, to being involved locally, and all the way to running for public office. I'm not interested in identifying myself too much, but I will say that that the person we lost that election to was openly known to have been fired previously for having embezzled money, but voters didn't care because they got to vote for team (R) in our red state.

So from my perspective, there is a cancer that is eating America. I've tried hard to remove it. I've tried hard to treat it. Ultimately, it seems to have metastisized to the point that it is incurable. You can either keep up with the radiation and chemo and be miserable until you die, or you can stop treatment and do your best to enjoy the time that is left.

For me, moving to Iceland is my version of stopping treatment to enjoy what life I have left. And if you want to fight to the bitter end, or if you want to search for a better life in another country, I wish each and every one of you the very best on your journey.

[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 37 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I'm glad you had the means to make it out.

The vast majority of Americans, sadly, do not.

[–] Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 30 points 3 days ago (6 children)

American here. Can confirm; do not have $30,000. I just managed to scrounge up $5500 for the minimum possible downpayment on a house in northern Maine; the bluest, closest to Canada place, where people like to mind their own business and not fuck with anyone else for no reason. The Canadian escape route is real, though.

I do hear good things about Portugal. I was thinking Spain, but they seem to be having their own issues right now. This timeline is definitely off the rails.

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[–] leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone 49 points 3 days ago (5 children)

For anyone who's thinking UK, I'd advise not - we're about 4-5 years behind you in terms of imminent fascism and whilst there's still technically a chance to avert it, its very unlikely - especially since Starmer is being even more awful than the Tories.

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[–] m4xie@lemmy.ca 26 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Here in Canada we're trying to catch America's brain drain. We especially need doctors quite desperately.

[–] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 12 points 2 days ago (4 children)

doctors

How's the demand for nurses? I'll be finishing up nursing school in less than a year! :D

Or support staff? I'm a surgical tech now, and some of my coworkers (other techs, schedulers - bottom of the medical food chain, but still with specialty experience) feel trapped here by their lack of higher education.

[–] codewise@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Check out bchealthcareers.ca for an example of what is being done to encourage medical professionals to make the move to Canada. This site is B.C. specific but it includes doctors, nurses, and allied health professions.

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[–] OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Honestly the Netherlands seems pretty great.

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[–] bonus_crab@lemmy.world 27 points 3 days ago (7 children)

Californian - i want us, oregon, and washington to join canada.

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[–] shirro@aussie.zone 32 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Non-murican - strongly feel preference should be given to genuine refugees fleeing war, famine etc where they have absolutely no ability to influence their fate other than escape. The US is a failed democracy but the people there have barely begun to challenge their government compared to what we have seen elsewhere in the world. And there is still refuge available in blue states. US citizens need to stand up and fight. Then if they fail, only then do they get to go in the queue with the genuine humanitarian refugees. I don't like queue jumpers. Sorry but impingement on your civil liberties doesn't compare with families in war torn parts of the world living in fear fear of having their limbs blown off every night.

Ofcourse business around the world would like to cherry pick talent for in demand jobs. They prefer not to invest in developing local people when they can import experienced talent for less. So people with in demand skills will get in that way, not as refugees.

[–] ArsonButCute@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I don't mean to naysay but this isn't reduced civil rights people are fleeing. The US is building concentration camps and has recently approved expanding their budget for ICE (originally immigration enforcement, now a gestapo analogue) such that it is larger than most world militaries.

This is naziism people are fleeing. This is death camps people are fleeing.

[–] kcweller@feddit.nl 4 points 2 days ago

And those people fleeing genuine threat should be welcomed as refugees. American voting citizens however, need to get their assess out on the streets and actually start challenging the police, ICE and government, instead of fleeing what they created.

[–] Flocklesscrow@lemmy.zip 8 points 2 days ago
[–] RickyRigatoni@retrolemmy.com 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I was going to say Italy but they seem to be going fash again so... north sentinel island?

[–] DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

North Sentinel Island is willing to welcome you with a gift of their finest bow and arrow show 🤗

(Serious tho, please don't disturb uncontacted tribes)

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[–] JackDark@lemmy.world 61 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Ireland. I'm a firm believer that if you move to a region that speaks a different language, you need to make a genuine effort to learn that language. After having 3 years of foreign language (including a year of Gaelic when I lived in Ireland as a child for a year), I know it's not my thing, so an English speaking country is a requirement for me. Ireland is gorgeous, and still in the EU. Scotland would also be top of the list if they split from the UK and joined the EU.

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[–] chaitae3@lemmy.world 15 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Americans would do anything to not call a general strike.

[–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 14 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Get it organized. I'll show up. Show us poor stupid lazy americans how easy it is to hold an extended general strike to effect a national change. I'm all in on it. Let's fucking go everyone! This armchair analyst knows the way!

[–] EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 7 points 2 days ago (2 children)

A birthstrike would be much easier to pull off than a general (labor) strike. Bills don't stop just because you stopped working, and labor strikes require a high degree of coordination. It's a significant risk for those going on strike.

In contrast, a birthstrike does not hurt your immediate situation, and actually likely helps it by preventing an increase in financial burden. Additionally, it requires no real degree of coordination. It can start small and pick up steam as more people jump onboard.

[–] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Surely it takes a long time and Trump will be dead our out of office before any difference can be seen?

[–] EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Hypothetically, you could start seeing results in as little as 9 months if people coordinated and actually took it seriously. Even without any sort of concerted effort, I wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. sees a drop in birth rates in 2026 as large numbers of people independently (i.e. without coordination) say "no thanks!"

Part of the point of birthstriking is that even if the effort ultimately doesn't work, you've still succeeded in protecting your descendants from whatever thing you are striking against. For example, I don't think we can stop climate change at this point. But even if it doesn't save the environment, there is value choosing to not create new victims.

[–] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Are the results anything that would cause any pressure for change though?

Seems like you would want a lot of organisation too or its just a few people and maybe a 0.1% drop in the fertility rate.

Are the results anything that would cause any pressure for change though?

Won't know until we try it 😃

Seems like you would want a lot of organisation too or its just a few people and maybe a 0.1% drop in the fertility rate.

Ideally yes, but even on a personal level the second paragraph ("Part of the point of birthstriking...") still applies even if no one else joins in. This is in contrast to a labor strike that has no benefit to you (and is actively detrimental) if you try it without the backing of a large group of other people joining in.

It is easier to coordinate a birthstrike than a labor strike because it can be done incrementally. A labor strike absolutely depends on a significant % of the population engaging all at once. Otherwise it fails. A birthstrike can have participation build up over time since it doesn't adversely affect your day-to-day life the way that a labor strike does, thus it can be held indefinitely. In contrast to working, reproduction is completely optional on an individual level.

But yes, it absolutely stretches out the time frame. Labor strikes produce results in days or weeks. Now we are looking at months and years.

[–] stickly@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

We've been in a pseudo-birth strike for decades, kids have been increasingly expensive as real wages dropped. The only thing it's gotten us is regressive assaults on reproductive rights.

[–] RodgeGrabTheCat@sh.itjust.works 29 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Canadian here. I'll welcome anyone who voted against Trump.

Those who voted for Trump or didn't vote at all can die in a ditch.

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