Hiring someone on this kind of visa puts them under your boot. They can't ask for much or make waves without risking their whole life being upturned. If a citizen gets fired that sucks, but if you're on a work visa you might have to leave the country (breaking your lease, leaving your partner, etc). I think you get 60 days. Given how bad the job market is, that's not very long to find a new job. Also given how ICE is abducting people and sending them to a death camp, people are extra cautious.

It's similar to how coupling health insurance to employment gives the employer extra power against labor. Are you really going to make a big deal about your boss pressuring you to work unpaid overtime when getting fired means you lose access to your life saving medicine?

[–] shawn1122@sh.itjust.works 1 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

For context, every wealthy nation has work visas like this. It is not unique to H1bs. Dubai was essentially built on this framework with the added aspect of confiscating passports.

It can be used well in some cases, especially in attracting a workforce to an underserved area. For example, immigrant doctors and nurses make a up a huge proportion of the hospital workforce throughout the US (upwards of 1 in 3 in some urban areas) but even moreso in rural areas.

The problem is when it's misused, especially in the tech sector.

[–] whotookkarl@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

People who get kicked out of the country if they lose their job usually don't form unions or protest for fair pay or worker rights

[–] manicdave@feddit.uk 15 points 21 hours ago

He's right. It doesn't mean you hate foreigners to understand why bosses would prefer to hire someone with less rights and who needs less money to raise their family through remittances.

[–] ordinarylove@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 19 hours ago

fuck every border that's what i think

[–] cubism_pitta@lemmy.world 31 points 1 day ago

A lot of the Tech related H-1Bs go to Consulting firms.

I have nothing negative to say about people on H-1Bs they work very hard and are working the hand they are dealt just like you and me.

The argument that talent can not be found within the US though is completely bogus.

[–] Booboofinget@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago

It tracks. There is nothing a multi-million dollar company won't do to screw its workers so it can give their shareholders a bigger profit.

[–] Ledivin@lemmy.world 19 points 1 day ago

It's both, really. We could easily get the best and the brightest by offering better pay, but why sacrifice anything when you can have both?

[–] BB84@mander.xyz 3 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

Most "leftist" American politician says: Immigrants are taking your good-paying American jobs!!!

[–] Turret3857@infosec.pub 15 points 19 hours ago

pretty sure it says clear as day "large corporations aren't hiring you because immigrants are cheaper and they shouldnt be"

[–] Krauerking@lemy.lol 6 points 17 hours ago

Anyone with the ability to see that these systems are in place to further abuse the average worker and exploit emotions:
These systems have a history of and active effect of exploiting and abusing the average worker and immigrant.

[–] tane69@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

He’s right

[+] Fizz@lemmy.nz -11 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Hes completely wrong. https://www.h1bdata.org/

[–] NoForwardslashS@sopuli.xyz 14 points 19 hours ago

A random example using data from this link:

Apple Inc. employs 4116 H1B holders for "Software Develolment Applications" with an average salary of $136,794

Looking at Glassdoor the average salary for that position (from 6630 salaries in the US) is $215,000 - $330,000

[–] burgerpocalyse@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

dropdown menus?! explain to me!

[+] Fizz@lemmy.nz -9 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

I dont know why Bernie has flipped and is now parroting the immigrants stealing jobs meme. We dont have to guess we can easily look at the h1b rates and see they aren't replacing Americans with low wages. The h1b wages are very high across the different industries and these industries havent had wage drops due to h1b workers coming over.

[–] Ledivin@lemmy.world 6 points 18 hours ago

We dont have to guess we can easily look at the h1b rates and see they aren't replacing Americans with low wages.

The site you linked very explicitly disagrees with you. Compare those h1b salaries with average salaries at the companies/positions they're working for.

The h1b wages are very high across the different industries

Nobody has ever claimed they get paid minimum wage or something. Doesn't change the fact that they are cheaper than non-h1b workers virtually 100% of the time.

[–] burgerpocalyse@lemmy.world 13 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

that is not what sanders is saying

[–] Fizz@lemmy.nz -5 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

How is saying "replacing good paying american jobs with low wage indentured servants from abroad" not exactly that? I agree with Bernie on the servant part because of the visa restrictions but they're paid well enough and they're skilled enough that I dont feel sorry for them as they've got plenty of prospects for where to live.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 9 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Because the h1b visas are designed to lock in the person by sponsoring the h1b. So the company can basically pay you less than what the job is worth and you can't say shit about it or they pull your h1b sponsorship and you get ejected from the country. It's %100 indentured servitude.

[–] Fizz@lemmy.nz -3 points 18 hours ago (3 children)

Yeah I sort of agree with the lockin part but I wouldnt use the harsh term indentured servitude became theyre coming over with the expectation its a working visa not a permanent visa.

But that wasn't tbe part i cared about. I care that the stats show the companies are still paying high salaries and the average pay for the non h1b workers is still going up because the demand for skilled workers is still high. Bernie is completely wrong to claim otherwise and he should know better.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 12 hours ago

That's the issue. Their salaries are usually 50% of what they're worth to citizens. If a company has to pay a citizen 300k but can get an h1b for 150k then they're gonna go for the h1b even if they're the weaker candidate. It drives down salaries.

[–] TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today 1 points 15 hours ago

I think the problem you're running into is that your definition of "low wage" isn't in reference to their applied fields. I don't think it's right to assume that people are going to compare a pilot's low wage to someone doing manual labor.

The point he is making is that corporations aren't hiring people under h1b because there's a lack of skilled labour. They're hiring people under h1b because they help drive down labour costs, or they don't want to absorb the cost of training new skilled labour.

If it were really because there was a lack of skilled labour, and demand was so high, then there shouldn't be a gap in pay between H1b and local skilled labour. If we want the best and brightest from everywhere, why are we paying the best and brightest lower than the industry standard?

[–] Ledivin@lemmy.world 2 points 18 hours ago

Can you define indentured servitude for me

[–] Jackcooper@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago

The world (8 billion people) has more talent than when we keep it to the US (350 million people). We should want to import high level talent.

[–] saltesc@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago

I don't think that's what Bush was thinking in 1990 when he split H1, nor what Truman was thinking when he made it.

In fact, with the current state of unemployment and skilled workers, the US needs as many educated/skilled people migrating as fast as possible, but I think it's too late.