this post was submitted on 03 Aug 2026
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A Boring Dystopia
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I agree that Europe need to spend more on defense and be less dependant on the US, but tax the rich for crying out loud! Welfare does not need to be cut for this.
We do not need to spend more on defense, cos there is no threat. I mean Russia is losing against Ukraine, how tf are they supposed to be a threat for the rest of europe? And neither China nor India are threating Europe. The only answer I MIGHT accept is defense against the USA.
Well yes, exactly. A fascist USA is a good example for a threat if they don't get their shit together over there.
And Russia is absolutely a threat. We have been in a cold war with them for quite some time without even knowing it. Russia is a large part of why right-wing extremists parties are so popular in Europe. They are actively destroying democracy in Europe. That is an existential threat, at least to our values as society and democracy.
Yeah Russia under Putin has been interfering a lot, starting with climate change denial - but that is only possible because social media lets them. Without meaningful moderation to stem "agitprop" and hate speech and propaganda, there is no defense. Meanwhile spending more on the military industrial complex to build up this massive lobbying force that undermines democracy is the exact wrong reaction. We need to either demand the social media moderate and properly ban botnets and state agents, or ban them and create a European (moderated) alternative. You can't have for profit news or social media and expect democracy to work.
Obviously being Anti Russia doesn't change the historical fact that the CIA/NED funded and facilitated the protests and regime change in Ukraine and empowered Ukrainian Nazis to turn Ukraine Anti-Russia. And that Russia has legitimate security concerns about a Nato aligned, Nazi infested Ukraine. Which again, a military proxy adversary to Russia wasn't what we needed to fight Russia's interference. Putin/Russia does want to undermine and weaken Europe, and in that way they also profit from the destabilization the Ukraine war has caused. It's a similar dynamic to Bin Laden turning the US warmongering into overdrive and therefor ruining the US.
I agree on Europe needing its own moderated alternative to US social media.
But let's not repeat Russian propaganda on how Ukraine is "Nazi infested", it's quite the opposite, the Russian regime is the most fascist government of our age. Russia has "legitimate" security concerns about Ukrainians choosing democracy and Europe over Russian fascism. How people still fall for the reversal of the victim/perpetrator relationship in this conflict astounds me to this day.
This isn't Russian propaganda. These are all facts you can read up on from western sources. See this for the sources you can follow up yourself.
Just because you call something Russian propaganda or because Russia said it doesn't invalidate an argument or fact. This is called a "genetic fallacy". The US did have a leading role in the regime change in Ukraine and who got into power. The US has done regime change and coups a lot of time in the last 70 years, and they said they are working towards regime change in Ukraine before it happened, they funded the movement and applied pressure.
If you deny the historical facts then you are playing right into the hands of the warmongers like OP. All they have to keep saying is that Russia is an evil Nazi regime and a clear and present danger and that any opposition to more militarism in Europe is traitorous.
If Russia was indeed such a grave danger, they would be right too. Turn Europe's economy into a war economy, start conscription, start a Manhattan project to intercept nuclear warheads and build a billion killer drones to conquer Russia. So your position isn't even consistent. Because it's double think. Russia is at the same time weak and has a smaller economy than Italy, has human wave tactics that cannot work, is on the brink of collapse for years now, and at the same time is incredibly dangerous genocidal nazi state that must be stopped at all cost.
The cost being the truth and our social democratic policies.
Are you saying they are not?
Absolutely no one in Europe wants to conquer Russia. We just want to be left the fuck alone from Russian Nazis interfering in our democracy and to leave our neighbours alone.
And the only one twisting historical facts are you, saying the Maidan revolution was a western coup instead of Ukrainians choosing to oust a Russian puppet. This wasn't some fringe group taking power, it was supported by the majority of Ukrainians.
Poll: More Ukrainians disapprove of EuroMaidan protests than approve of it (Kyiv Post, 2014)
"More than half of the respondents (52%) were for the Euromaidan protests, with only 6% of supporters of then-authorities. A quarter (25%) supported neither authorities nor the opposition and were against any protests in the country."
2019, 5 years later. But the facts about the funding and NED operations remain the facts. The organizer of the Maidan protests did receive funding and training from the CIA/NED. This does not erase what happened, or how it happened.
Further, the near 50/50 split is very much divided between east and west Ukraine, with the east being more Russian language speaking and aligned. There was serious resistance to this "realignment". And even western media reported about the nazi problem and violence coming from far right mobs.
Did Russia meddle, contribute to the civil war and illegally invade? Yeah. But this one sided narrative about the history, and the characterization of Russia as some comically evil nazi regime is just nonsense. The CIA/NED openly bragged about their operation that ended with this war.
Again, I'm not pro Russia. But I do understand they have legitimate security concerns. And expanding NATO to Ukraine was warmongering. Because you do not need to be pro Russia to say "If you do X, this actor will react with Y which is very bad. So do not do X".
You mean the same regime that has kidnapped thousands of Ukrainian children? The same regime that has massacred civilians in occupied Ukrainian territories? The same regime that threatens the world with Nukes every so often? You mean the same regime that poisoned UK citizens with novichok? The regime that is trying to end Democracy in Europe? The one that is murdering any opposition to its rule?
Add to this the rampant ultra nationalism and xenophobia how can you not characterise the Russian regime as fascist?
Ukraine is not part of NATO, so what does that mean? And even if Ukraine joined, is Ukraine not a sovereign country that can decide this themselves? Calling that warmongering is what makes this whole take disingenuous and pro Russia, because it only serves Russian fascism and imperialism.
The only warmonger here is Russia.
It was very much trying to be and passed laws to make it a goal of their foreign policy. And they very much are associated with NATO today, otherwise they would never have held out so long.
And sure, they can decide for themselves, and we should have said "Are you mental, Russia is an evil regime that will start a war about this! Why would we want you in our military alliance and provoke war? Did you forget what happened in Georgia?" Instead Stoltenberg said "Sure, why not!".
The morality of Russia doesn't even enter into this calculus. If you deliberately ignore the consequence that result in war, while there are other alternatives like not doing a regime change and letting Ukraine stay neutral, how is it not warmongering?
And suppressing this very basic logic and the historical facts and calling it "Russian propaganda" makes any diplomatic solution impossible and endless war inevitable. That is also warmongering.
I guess it was also the fault of the Allies that Germany attacked Poland in 1939?
You need to get out of your tankie .ml circles. Absolutely insane.
And what would that have to do with the situation in Ukraine?
I guess it's also Russia's fault that the USA attacked and invaded Iraq and Afghanistan in 2001 and 2003?
Ah, the US dependence myth strikes again. #merica
So you're just shifting money to defense for shits and giggles then? Not because the US is no longer a reliable ally footing most of the western defense bill?
Okay.
How is it a myth? Europe is lacking for example in high-altitude air defense systems. Or are there European Systems that I am unaware of?
And thats just one example of many. Just look at how much of the European air force is composed of US Jets.