Ah, purity tests, here we fucking go again.
Memes of Production
Seize the Memes of Production
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the “ML” influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Rules:
Be a decent person.
No racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, zionism/nazism, and so on.
Other Great Communities:
This seems like rage bait in its entirety. Gatekeeping that you can't be left if you aren't a vegan as well.
Leftism isn't purity politics but by god there are some people doing their best
I'm okay with bringing up the contradiction, we all need to be held accountable but too often this can be used as a purity test.
Food is a deeply personal issue that we should try not to moralize, I understand that can be difficult when there are real consequences to the climate and suffering of animals but If you moralize food you will lose people.
I say this is a 7-year vegan. I understand this is a meme but memes normalize culture and it is best to lead with invitation, not accusation.
Food is a deeply personal issue that we should try not to moralize, I understand that can be difficult
Personal issues end where others right to exist begin. A personal choice is what color choice you wanna be wear in the morning.
If your personal choice has victims, claiming it’s a personal choice ceases to be a valid reasoning to do it. And yes. Choosing to eat meat has victims. You’re eating your victims.
You're not going to convince me, you're preaching to the choir but you messaging isn't meeting people where they're at and will leave us with a lonely moral victory.
Food chain still exists, home slice, and I'm at the top of it. Doesn't change my feelings about labor rights, or housing, or healthcare. You're presenting a false equivalence argument.
You're on top of it? Because you buy factory meat in a store?
Your being dense on purpose? You think human as a specie isn't at the top? Like if we want we couldnt kill every animal specie?
We built civilization and you think we areny the apex?
So you believe in rule of the mightiest?
Can you even call yourself a leftist?
Maybe you have a point to make but this isn't it.
Think about it with a moral view. Should we kill millions of animals a year even tho we don't have to and is considerably worse for your health and to the environment?
considerably worse for your health
Not quite the case. The way we in the western world consume meat is not particularly healthy. But a vegan diet is not healthier per se. You can have a pretty healthy diet that includes meat (although definitely with less meat than the average person in the western world consumes) and you can have a pretty healthy vegan diet. The difficulty with vegan diets is that humans are biologically omnivores, and while it is possible to lead a healthy vegan diet, one does have to be much more careful about their diet so that one doesn't miss any important nutrients. There's a reason the human palate is trained to like meat.
to the environment
This is more an argument to reduce meat consumption than to eliminate it, something I am entirely for. Whatever food we consume, it will just about always have an impact on the environment. The question is how we can reduce that impact to a point where it is sustainable.
Which is why Jeff Bezos should be able to control your entire life, living conditions, reproduction, and milk you for all the money he possibly can, right? He is at the top of the food chain so you don’t get a say, and that’s good and moral. Right?
It's at the top of the subjective hierarchy that you are inventing to justify your cruelty and violence. That's rationalization, that's not objective reality. That's how you cope with being a fucking monster.
How is ita false equivalence to say that animal rights matter? Do sentient beings deserve to be eaten by us, simply because we have consciously decided that we want to be at the top of the food chain? Should you continue to have the highest emissions from your diet, simply because you're "at the top" of some hypothetical food chain you have no part in executing yourself?
I get that some people need to eat animal products for health reasons, but if your entire reason is "I am an apex predator" (which you're not, btw), then I don't see why you shouldn't be called out for that mentality, which is promoting a view of the world that is pretty exploitative of other living beings and environmentally damaging to boot.
Well I guess that justifies the horrific conditions of factory farming animals by the billions congrats on the moral high ground.
Food chain still exists, home slice, and I'm at the top of it. Doesn't change my feelings about labor rights, or housing, or healthcare. You're presenting a false equivalence argument.
Corporate chain still exists home slice. And I’m at the top of it. Doesn’t change my feelings about exploiting you, not giving you proper social safety nets or healthcare.
Might makes right is a shit argument.
"im physically capable of making other creatures suffer therefore it's acceptable for me to do so". Aight dude. Clearly there's no changing your mind, but for those looking - this mindset is the same as people who sexually assault women.
I think being offended by this meme means that one isn't wholly comfortable with one's own cognitive dissonance
Wanting to enjoy animal products and a great deal of the types of food ever made by humans does not inherently necessitate animal exploitation, and therefore isnt necessarily cognitive dissonance.
Factory farms and legitimate animal abuses are horrific, but the vast majority of human relationships to animals and animal products in history has not been anything like that. I dont take issue with actual husbandry or hunting, its the circle of life.
One of the great failures of activism in this area is that vegans conflate horrific animal abuses like factory farms with any form of eating animal products, which most people would not agree with, and it makes it easy for people to write off any activism to close factory farms and things like that as just “crazy vegans” or whatever.
I would love to see lab grown meat and other things that mean we could move beyond killing animals for consumptive purposes, and eventually we will. In the meantime, we can have ethical farming practices that ensure quality lives for animals that will be eaten. There is no cognitive dissonance in that. I dont think the majority of people believe there is an ethical issue with eating animals at large, just that there are unethical ways to raise animals to be eaten. I dont take issue with anyone believing that eating any animal products is unethical, but I also do not believe that there is some universal ethical truth to that idea whatsoever, nor that people eating meat is purely a social construct. Humans are omnivorous animals, we evolved to eat animals. If anything, veganism is far more of a socialized construct than biological evolution.
Beyond that, there are plenty of animal products that vegans refuse to eat even though taking them doest harm the animal or cost its life. Eggs, dairy or butter, etc.
Beyond that, there are plenty of animal products that vegans refuse to eat even though taking them doest harm the animal or cost its life. Eggs, dairy or butter, etc.
You should do some research on what industrial scale dairy and egg farms are like. It's not much better, and in some cases worse.
Common practices include:
-
Throwing live freshly born male chicks into blenders
-
Chickens being confined, thousands at a time, in small dark spaces where they spend all their lives. Often dying to wounds from fighting each other due to being kept in such unnaturally close proximity
-
Due to a variety of tactics to maximize eggs per chicken, they often deplete their calcium, meaning they break their bones when attempting to stand
-
Dairy cows often spend most of their 'useful' lives (4-5 years) in concrete boxes barely larger than their own bodies, head pointed to food, and grates behind where waste can flow
-
The calves taken from dairy cows (necessary for them to begin lactation) end up in the same meat industry if male
-
Dairy cows, once out of their prime, end up in the same meat industry
Lol how many times have I heard vegans say, "oppressing minorities isn't as bad as animal agriculture"
Like I def know vegans who are bad ass leftists, my own leftism was inspired by veganism, and when the conditions of my life make it easier to eat vegan I will switch my diet back.
But there are lots of people who are vegan for health reasons, which is a perfectly fine reason to be vegan. But they don't tend to be especially left wing. The owners of a vegan hot dog restaurant/manufacturing in my city are like MAGA vegans. I had an ex girlfriend who was vegan, who never had sympathy for homeless people or any social causes before we got together.
I think what veganism and leftism have in common, is that many people are motivated by deep sympathy or empathy to make changes to themselves, in the hopes that in doing so we will make a change in the world. If we change enough people's minds, and they change themselves, eventually it will lead to a shift in the real world.
But leftism is not "my way of life is better and you're a bad person if you don't think and act like me" which is the attitude of many vegans (and some leftists). That isn't vegan leftism, it's vegan centrism. Checking product labels isn't political, and alienating people for their diet isn't leftist.
Leftism does not equal "having sympathy outside of my self". Sympathy and empathy are like senses. These senses allow us to identify objective truth, particularly injustice, by allowing us to sense pain in others. When this motivates us to make change to ourselves or the world, to resist injustice, that is leftism.
Every dividing issue has a political left and right. There are moderate and hard right conservatives, progressive and centrist liberals, left and moderate socialists. Left vegans are like some of the best people in society, and a conservative or centrist vegan is likely closer to the left on some social issues, if I had to guess.
But maybe that's not the point of the meme. Maybe veganism is like a litmus test for performative leftism
I know a catholic anti-vaxxer vegan and a bisexual lumberjack vegan so the field is pretty wide open.
As someone who is exploring veganism right now, this extreme stance is kind of a turn off. Like I'm still going to eat plant based, but this makes me not want to talk to people who call themselves vegan or even call myself vegan either.
Edit: It's strange that the response I am getting to this is to call me right wing and white, of which I am neither. But I am someone who is just trying to eat plant based.
Also called "how to make chuds tag themselves in one simple step". It disappointingly never fails...
iff (all leftists agreed)(either)(to be vegans)(or)(veganism has nothing to do with leftism) then (I would just go with the consensus and do the vegan thing)
since the majority of people, and, presumably, the majority of leftists don't agree to be vegans, we should probably stop using it to divide the left.
beans are alright but pulses
are what i swear by. god damn i fuckin love lentils 
I'm a lefty but when it comes to animals I'm a far right fascist who believes in human superiority. We're the top of a food chain in which animals consume each other.
That said, industrialized ranching techniques are gross and I wish people would hunt their own meat.
