Asklemmy

It may be bad in Germany but its worse in the USA. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, which has better transit options than the rest of the country. But its limited just to the city of San Francisco itself and maybe some parts outside the city. I just came back from a short trip to Germany, where my family lives. They live in Kassel, a mid-sized city in the north central part of the country. Even a mid-sized city has an extensive tram network and bus system. And a monthly transit card doesn't cost as much. Getting to Kassel itself was easy by train, though the train was 1/2 hour late. I am very, very jealous of my family.

I live in a smallish town with decent public transport in the US. Free, highly reliable busses that go to nearly every part of town and a couple of the connected suburbs as well. The locals hate it, I guess they're still mad it messed up traffic? Idk I just tell them if they hate the traffic so much use the free bus that is supposedly making their life so much harder.

This is abnormal in the US, having decent public transport. Its basically only available in MAJOR metro areas like NYC, LA, Seattle, Chicago. Most of the country barely has functional public transport, let alone reliable.

Where I live, there are literally zero public transit options. There are a few bus stops closer to the downtown area, but honestly I have never actually seen the buses that supposedly go there. Usually there are just homeless people hanging out at the bus stops. We do have a small Amtrak station, which is nice, I guess, but it's way more expensive than driving and takes 4-10 times as long to get anywhere. Then when you get somewhere, you have to figure out how to rent a car. And this is the largest city in my state; most places don't even have well-paved roads, much less public transit.

Who Framed Roger Rabbit is surprisingly historically accurate if you ignore all the cartoons

American Public what?

I kid. But it's damned bad. I used to live just south of a major city (Baltimore, 500k people) beltway and worked just north of it.

We have a "subway" that has 3 stops, between one single suburb community and an area that was the city center decades ago.

We have one Lightrail. It goes North/South through the center of the city. I was extremely fortunate to live and work within walking distance.

There's a commuter rail that just follows the freight rail tracks south and east, and tickets are expensive and the trains only run a couple of times a day.

I was 32km from work, via lightrail, it took at least an hour and up to 3 hours each way.

It was 60km to drive around the beltway, that took roughly 30 minutes

Bus coverage is pretty good in poorer neighborhoods, and nearly non-existent when the neighborhoods reach non-poverty level. You'd literally need to walk down an expressway to get to the nearest bus stop where I am now. No sidewalks anywhere.

I live in the largest city in a Midwestern state. To access amtrak (the only passenger rail in the us)I need to drive 3 hours to the nearest station.

The city is shaped like a lopsided clock. I live in the burbs around 1 o'clock. I work for a fortune 50 company headquartered at 10 o'clock. To take the bus to my job I need to take the bus downtown and wait for an out bound. This would take 90 minutes when I could drive in 25.

America has not made public transit a serious option unless you are in Chicago, NYC or DC.

To be fair, German public transport (and I admit that I've only taken it around Berlin) is about average for Europe. Better than Norway not as good as the Netherlands.

From my limited travel around the states I can say that availability of public transport varies a lot from town to town.

Local transport: San Fransisco has a lot of public transport and its pretty reliable. I spent over a week in Shreveport Louisiana and I only saw a bus once. maybe I wasn't in the right place at the right time of day but it wasn't everywhere like in a European city. I haven't been to New York, but I have a new Yorker friend who says the subway stations are essentially a place for homeless people to masturbate when they get banned from the library. The entire state of Wyoming doesn't seem to have any public transport.

Intercity transport: The greyhound busses are used almost exclusively by people who are not legally allowed to drive (full of meth heads and schizophrenic nuns) the drivers were obviously whichever mentally ill passenger was closest to the front when the previous driver overdosed. They'll do things like throw their hands in the air and say don't worry jesus is protecting us! That's if there is a bus between cities. There isn't a bus between salt lake city and park city next door for example. The trains have been reduced steadily to the point where the majority of us cities don't even have a train station.

So yes Germany has excellent public transport, with the exception of having to validate your ticket before you get on the train (That's an inefficient waste of time).

My only option is the local city bus. For me to go eight miles straight east to where my work is, I'd have to transfer twice, go a couple miles north of where my destination is, and leave home at least two hours before my shift. By car, it takes less than 15 minutes.

Once Kansas City had apparently a fantastic streetcar. Then the car companies bought it up and tore out the rails. Now we're getting a streetcar being built again but it's just doing downtown on one street. I'm not near the streetcar.

So I drive to work. It's 12 miles, about 30 minutes (or 20 miles, 30 minutes if I take interstate around the city... honestly this city is weird, EVERYTHING is 30 minutes away.) If I wanted to take the bus, the shortest time frame would be 1 hr 35 minutes... not including that I'd have to get halfway there to get to the first bus stop.

Cities... if I wanted to take the train, I can go to Chicago for relatively cheap using Amtrak... but gotta plan that 3 months in advance, and the 8 hour ride we HOPE doesn't get extended because Amtrak doesn't own the rails it's on. Flipside, driving is 8 hours. Other cities, St. Louis, Wichita, basically I have two train lines, one in state, and one cross country. If I want to go to Denver... it's not happening.

So to answer your question, I want you to try to imagine how bad you think our public transportation is. Then lower your expectations.

American public transport either doesn't exist or is considered to only be for poor people and migrant workers [sic].

The only place this isn't true is in a big city.

I happen to be a prime example of how bad US Rail is this week. I'm taking my son from near Fredericksburg (the real one), up to Ballston for a summer camp. We have a couple options:

1. Drive

• Distance: ~70 miles one way, ~140 round trip
• Time: 1 hour and 45 minutes one way, with traffic. ~3.5 hours round trip.
• Cost:
  • 4 gallons (US) of gas @ $3.50/gal: $14
  • Wear and tear: estimate at 0.5 gas cost: $7
  • Parking: $11
  • Total: $32/day

2. Virginia Railway Express (VRE) and Washington Area Metro (WMATA)

• Distance: N/A
• Time:
  • Drive to Fredericksburg station: 20 minutes
  • VRE (Fredericksburg to L'Enfant station) - 1 hour 20 minutes
  • WMATA (L'Enfant to Ballston) - 20 minutes
  • Total: 2 hours one way, 4 hours round trip
• Cost:
  • Drive: we'll just ignore this, it's close enough to zero.
  • VRE: $23.56/person * 2 people: $47.12
  • WMATA: $3.45/person * 2 people: $6.90
  • Total: $54.02/day

So, for the low, low cost of about 1.68 times the cost of driving, we can take slightly longer to get to our destination and have zero control over our schedule, which makes the actual time devoted to travel considerably longer. We tried the public transit route last year, and it meant leaving earlier in the morning (about 30 minutes) to catch a train to get us there on time, and getting us home around 45 minutes later. And this is right around the US Capitol, which has some of the better transit options. Needless to say, we're driving this year.

I really want to be able to take transit, but it's basically dead in the US. Earlier this year, I needed to go to Boston for work. Catching a train from Washington, DC to Boston meant an 7 hour train ride (using the "high speed" Acela line) at ~$500 round trip. Flying was 1.5 hours and cost ~$300 round trip. Wanna guess which option I used?

Basically, all of the incentives are stacked against transit options in the US. Except within certain metro areas, driving or flying is always cheaper and faster. Yes, inside those metro areas, public transit can be great. I used to work in Washington, DC and used the VRE I mentioned earlier to get there and then WMATA or the Capital BikeShare to get to my office. That was great, since I didn't have to drive into DC every day, which sucks big donkey balls. But it probably wasn't cost effective and wasn't really time efficient either.

American public transport

The what now?

I mean, it's three words. You can put any two of them in a sentence. But not the third.

i mean, can you get where you want to go, and back, by transit? if so it's kilometers better than most american transit.

eta: wait, you're talking rail specifically? then if you have any passenger rail, that's already way better than most american cities.

"American public transport"

Good joke! Best joke I heard since "American democracy"!

I live in an area know for having some of the better public transport in the states. My drive to work is about 25 minutes. I can bus to work, but it takes almost three hours and three separate busses, and then I cannot bus home after work.

American public transit doesn't exist outside of a couple major cities.

So yeah. Probably the absolute worst Europe has to offer is a world altering step up.

If it exists, it is better than American public transit. Here is my daily commute to work, as estimated by Google Maps:

Even Google goes “lmao use a fucking car, peasant.”

It’s technically possible for me to take public transit, but it would be about the same as walking. Here is a quick sketch of the route I’d need to take, compared to my drive:

That route is because there are no east/west lines between me and my job. It starts by walking/riding my bike the wrong direction to get to the nearest bus stop. Then it takes me south-west through two cities, then north-west through two more cities. Then I’d have a ~20 minute walk to transfer rail lines, because my job is serviced by a different rail system than the one that my bus service touches. After that walk (and waiting for the next train) I take it north and then have to walk another 10-15 minutes to finally get to work.

Not counting wait times, it would take me nearly 2.5 hours to use public transit. When you consider the fact that some busses and trains only run once every 20-45 minutes, it actually stretches closer to 3-4 hours, if the schedules don’t line up. Or I could just fucking drive 10 minutes. Yeah, it’s no wonder Americans use cars for everything.

Lmao what public transport? We don't have that here.

What rail? We have Amtrak but it's laughable even compared to the poorest European countries. It's cars or nothing baby.

Public transportation in cities varies. But inter-city transportation? In most of the USA you simply cannot travel between towns or cities on public transportation. There are a few inter-city bus options (Greyhound, Flix, Megabus), but those don't go everywhere.

The rail options outside of the NE corridor (Boston to Washington DC, basically) are very sparse. Here's the map: https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/Maps/Amtrak-System-Map-020923.pdf

That's it. Most of those routes are at most once per day in each direction. So if you city even has a stop (which it probably doesn't) the train may only come through in the middle of the night. Some routes are only 3x/week. And because of the massive distances involved and old equipment, it takes at least 70h+ to travel from coast to coast (more really, since connection times are long) and costs twice the price of a 6h flight ($250+ vs $80-120).

Trains are often on schedule, but can be many hours late. Once they are off schedule they are at the mercy of the freight train lines (who own the tracks) for passing. You can get stuck behind a slow moving cargo train for many hours.

Why is it like this? It's complicated. But it starts with very low population density, large areas/distances, and a very different relationship between the individual and the state in the US vs most of Europe. Add the rise of suburbs in the automobile right when many US cities were growing. Another factor is public attitudes. People think that public transportation is for poor people. I know people who have never ridden a city bus, and I live in a city that probably has above average public transportation for the region.

Anyway, as a public transportation rider-by-choice I feel your pain. Having spent a few weeks in Germany recently (with a DT for travel), and having ridden extensively on US train and bus networks, yous is definitely much, much better. Resist the politics of privatization and decay.

What is public transport? I think we need to establish that first. You mean like...the school bus? That's the only kind I've ever seen.

Here's a fun comparison: Tennessee vs Mecklenburg Western-Pomerania

They have very similar population density (70/km² vs 65/km²). Tennessee is roughly 4x the area and population.

There are only 2 inter-city train stops in Tennessee, in Memphis and a small town to it's north, both on the 1x/day service between Chicago and New Orleans. The largest city (and its state capitol) Nashville has no rail service.

The entire state of Tennessee has only 10 inter-city bus stops. Ten! Serving 7M people. The 4th largest city in the state is Chattanooga (181k), and it has no inter-city bus and no rail.

Red head kid "y'all have public transit?" Meme.

Its so bad its use is (wrongly) looked down upon as poor person transport unless its a large city. Everything is car culture and you are fucked without a car except in the largest metropolitan.

Shit does not run on time, its more expensive than it needs to be, and it goes very few places. It takes huge huge work to get it expanded because of NIMBYs and car companies fighting it.

Amtrak is doable but it takes as long or longer than driving a car.

There are no high speed trains and busses are a joke in cities. It can take hours to traverse a city because bus routes are terrible and constantly cut.

This is seriously all to do with car companies forcing out public transport in anyway possible as well as buying up a lot of city transportation portions and shutting them down as "not profitable". Americans defend it because "public good" has been vilified here. Its so dumb.

I live in a bigger US city that does have a metro. It’s not bad for doing longer trips in certain directions, when it’s working. But it breaks down at least a few times a year, and if you have to make a transfer to another train to make it to your destination, it’s often literally faster to walk.

If americans come to germany and act like german public Transport is the best, how ~~frickin bad~~ non-existent is american public Transport?

FTFY. I was pretty blown away by it but I can get excited by a sidewalk.

if there is some kind of service to the general benefit of the public, you can presume America either does not have it, or will lose it within 5 years

While in college, I needed to attend an event at another campus two hours away by car. I had no car. But I did try to look for a bus route:

• Four hours down to the nearest major city with a bus terminal
• Two hour stop in said city
• Five hours back up to the starting latitude at my destination
• Arrive Friday, attend the 6-hour function on Saturday, find somewhere to stay, and wait until Monday afternoon to make the same trip again in reverse.

I eventually found a friend who could drive me there and back, but we still had to get up at 05:00 on a Saturday to make it in time. Also, no Uber or Lyft, it was too rural to have drivers available at any given time. How glamorous it would have been if I could just hop on the train to the next town.

Hell, I've heard of Americans coming to Vancouver Canada and being pleasantly surprised about our public transit. We don't even technically have a proper heavy metro, and the SkyTrain is classified as automated "light" metro, AKA the kind they have in tiny German towns that are too small for heavy metro or S-bahn, AKA basically the same as an airport peoplemover but built out for a metro area of 3 million people.