Good thing
this post was submitted on 23 Apr 2025
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Sure is! Especially when Wayland is broken all the time. Last year I had to be on X because Wayland was laggy as fuck and my eyes hurt from the constant flickering.
A year before that it worked flawlessly and now it works too. Can't wait for the next major update, I just love the thrill of not knowing whether my PC will work well or not.
Modern or not, X just works. Wayland is broken all the time.
this evidence is anecdotal, many people have worse experiences with X11 and we don't have the stats infront of us to tell us which "just work"
Good thing I am not using Fedora.
I’m surprised no one seems upset about this change.
Because you can run a "rootfull xwayland" session which is essentially an X11 session but rewritten to be more maintanable.
After this, it's a lot harder to be opposed to the loss of X11, because you don't really lose it.
That is, if Wayland works for you. If it doesn't, running X inside Wayland won't solve much.
Everyone seems to poke on the vim vs emacs/gnome vs kde/systemd vs everyone else but it seems to me the most toxic feud in the foss world has been x11 vs wayland. People had throwed shit at it because of their own specific issues and its "slow" development pace without realizing it's a titanic endeavour and the hate and toxicity brings absolutely nothing positive to the table nor the development of Linux & FOSS in general.
People had throwed shit at it because of their own specific issues and its "slow" development pace without realizing it's a titanic endeavour
I think most realize that it is a titanic endeavour and know that it might take years until their issues are solved, so they get angry when people are like "works for me, so everyone should use it now". I've tried Wayland twice, each time it was deemed "ready" by someone, and each time something obvious was broken. x.org works and does what I want, so I'll continue using that.
I don't think it's quite a titanic enough endeavour to put slow in quotes. It's been in development for 16 years and only got a stable support for screenshots a few months ago. Does drag and drop work yet?
IMO at this point it is reasonable to say that the idea of having a shared protocol and then making every desktop environment implement the entire display server was not a good one. The Linux community does not have enough manpower to make that work well.
Wayland replaced a shitty protocol with equally shitty one. So it's still shit, but different.
There is a difference. vi vs emacs is about preference as is GNOME vs KDE. All can exist side by side and the fans can duke it out.
Wayland is replacing Xorg. It is not a choice between the two. It is a choice between the future or the past. That is a more bitter pill for those that choose the past.
X11 the protocol will be around for quite a while. Xwayland has no end date in sight. But the Xorg display server is going to be parked on the history shelf next to SystemV UNIX. You can still run UnixWare today but UnixWare vs Fedora (or RHEL) is not a real fight.
Wayland vs Xorg is not a fight either. Wayland is not just winning. It has already won.
Outside of Xwayland, nobody is going to invest in Xorg going forward. Most Linux desktop users have already moved to Wayland. It will be almost 100% by the end of the year. BSD and other POSIX operating systems will follow.
The BSD folks say that they will maintain Xorg themselves into the future. We will see. My guess is that it will increasingly be an option for legacy hardware only.
About time. X11 is yesterdays jam!
I'm not sure that's really a t(h)ing. I mean, jam lasts for ages.
Not when you make it yourself.