This episode's ending was very soulist. Battle is a social construct, and if everyone agrees, then it can be used however people want it to be used.
this post was submitted on 29 Jan 2026
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Thok moving of the piece of clothing to the side had me really chuckling.
I see they decided to address the more foul Language in this show compared to other Star Treks. I would have liked if it was addressed as a cultural shift regarding the evolution of language over centuries but instead they "Effed it up."
I never really took debate in school, but is that really how it goes? One student winner debating everyone for practice until they "lose?" Constant citations of things like they were called out anime punches? It seemed more like it school debate as written by someone who never did a debate club/class, but I never took one neither so I felt I should ask.
I also wondered about the debate. As a German I know nothing about debate culture, and this episode did not help lol
I very much enjoyed this one. I've always loved Klingon culture and Worf was always my favourite main cast member. In TNG/DS9 we often saw a juxtaposition between Klingon honour and victory/power at any cost that often took over. I really found it heartening that Klingons post burn are willing to risk extinction for their culture when 800 years ago many wouldn't think twice to using dishonourable means to get a seat on the council.
I wonder how much do the Klingons know that Starfleet pulled its punches?
yeah that was the thing that i thought hard to believe. A big battle between Staryfleet and Klingons for the control of a planet, wero, casualties, and not a sigle Klingon raises their eyebrows even more?
I don't think the Klingon leadership were ever lying to their people about why the war happened. I think everyone involved understood the simple soulist truth that a war is whatever the combatants can agree is a war, and therefore a bloodless war as a formality of cultural respect and independence is perfectly valid.
The realist viewpoint of "a war has to be between two people who hate each other and if they don't then it's not a real war" is not culturally universal. In fact, this episode reminded Me of what I've read of war in indigenous Australia. Wars did not usually involve any loss of life before colonisation.
Given that the shields barely has a scratch, at least the bridge crews have to know
I think they're probably fully aware, at least amongst their leadership. They'd already been offered the planet for free, after all.
I think it was about respect, not trickery.
Dialog exchange spoiler—do not read before viewing the episode
"I have been reading your file for the last seven years. It’s longer than War and Peace. And the plot twists…"
I haven’t laughed this much in months, I don’t know who writes these humorous bits, but thank you!!
I'm enjoying the show so far, my only gripe is that there is too much lens flare.
That was a fantastic episode altogether. Loved it.
I agree that the resolution should be obvious, and after the Betazed episode, it is again ridiculous that political problems are solved at a school, but then again, it was ridiculous that Picard solved all problems in the galaxy.
I also like how this episode resolves why Klingons played no role in Discovery after the time jump.
I agree that the resolution should be obvious, and after the Betazed episode, it is again ridiculous that political problems are solved at a school, but then again, it was ridiculous that Picard solved all problems in the galaxy.
Eh, that's just how shows work. Just imagine that there are a slew of other problems being solved off-screen by characters we never met.
Obviously, you need some disbelief for this kind of show. It's also always the main group of people solving the problems, not that random dude in the third row.
The show just needs to be cautious with not overdoing it. This is the second major federation "crisis" solved at the school in just four episodes, while they should actually study that nebular or learn temporal mechanics
I thought the contrivance of involving Starfleet Academy was done very well.
From an upper decks perspective, a tragedy happened, and Starfleet was compelled to act. No need to involve the Academy, but it just so happens that the highest ranking official in Starfleet with close ties to a member of the Klingon house is the current chancellor of Starfleet Academy. (That she's 400 years old is going to be a pretty handy plot device for getting her involved in all sorts of things... but it hasn't hit the point of being annoying yet.)
Separately, it also tracks that the chancellor needs to see their only Klingon cadet privately to offer support. That's a good school administration right there. No need to involve him in the diplomatic negotiations that are going on behind the scenes.
The only reason why these converged was because of the debate class, which makes total sense that it would be a required course at the Academy, and then only because the students debated the Doctor into allowing it because they were already talking about it.
I think this would be ridiculous if it was literally every episode, but this actually worked.
I just think the show needs to be careful. I like that the stakes at the moment are low and personal, and there's not galaxy threatening desaster (yet). I think the show would profit if they kept ist that way.
Everything else in this episode on what it means to be a Klingon was probably top 10 Trek for me.
Yeah, I thought both this and the "youth movement" angle of episode two worked well.
As the cadets start venturing out into fieldwork more, they shouldn't have to make excuses quite so often. They can go find their own trouble, and Discovery will be undergoing a perpetual refit!
But Star Trek writers should come up with new ideas other than "our favourite alien race" diasporas. Will we have a Frengi diaspora next season?
It's a bit weird that losing Qonos somehow wiped out the whole Klingon empire.
They did say they had been using "dilithium reactors" on multiple worlds.
Well, plus the Burn that made it difficult to traverse space. The "Klingon Zone" that was hinted at in Discovery probably meant that the apparatus of empire was no longer in place, but that only individual houses remained, scattered wherever they were across the region of the empire.
This episode was a close miss for me, it's like it had the framework to be a good episode but they just didn't finish it up correctly.
so this episode...
The whole debate thing with Jay-Den saying Klingons must be Klingons, yeah duh, everyone knows that, weak! And the thing with the fake battle, really no one else thought of it? Honestly ST always had problems portraying Klingons consistently, they usually make them appear so dumb you wonder how they can manage to keep their fricking starships operational.
Speaking of inconsistency, Darem was introduced in E01 being an asshole for no reason, then five minutes after changed completely, now he's even a wannabe-counsellor? I'm all for character growth, but there was none, it was more like character switch.
Loved the quote from The Drumhead, loved hearing the Klingon theme once again, I would have loved to hear it a bit longer.
Picardo is killing it as usual.
I'm seeing a slight improvement. I'm still hopeful this show can sediment into something good. I'm worried how they seem to have picked a protagonist once again, a thing I hated from Discovery.
I think Darem's biggest issue was his drive to be the best, and he pretty much got over that last week. Other than that...IDK, he's a bro, and I think he behaved as a bro this week.
(no need for spoiler tags in the discussion threads!)
Yeah, he always thought he had to put everyone else down to be a leader, because that's how it is on Khionia. So his first move is picking a fight with the Klingon to show who's boss.
And as you say, last week he realised "Wait, greatness in Starfleet comes from helping others be their best selves? Well let's get started then, I understand the assignment now!"
Loved the episode, no notes.
shit, should I be watching Academy!?
If you haven't been, at least try this episode (or everything up to this episode if you want to go all-in). If this episode doesn't move you in some way, then I don't know. Maybe it's not actually a show for you.
Yes.
I thought it was great and have been enjoying the series so far. It reminds me of Lower Decks blended with a much less offensively cheesy Discovery.
🥹 Yes, I am crying.
EDIT:
Major Spoiler
I teared up hearing the rendition of the TMP score.
Me too.
It was okay, and I like that we got some insight into why Jay-Den is the way he is.
But... to be honest, I’m not sure why this debate between Caleb and Jay-Den is even happening. If they’re going to throwing regulations and laws around, doesn’t the actual Prime Directive exist anymore? Because I’ve not heard a single mention of it. If the PD exists, you just don’t mess with the internal workings of a civilisation (TOS: “The Apple” and “The Return of the Archons” notwithstanding). You can offer, you can plead, but whether they accept is their choice and right, even if it means they go extinct because of it. Yes, I know it’s all a metaphor for Jay-Den’s internal struggles, and perhaps given how they’re debating the Prime Directive is now scattered across several statutes and case law instead of one all-encompassing General Order and other sub-orders (VOY: “Infinite Regress”). But when you’re talking about this kind of situation, it’s precisely the Prime Directive you should be using to frame the debate.
Also, I saw the ending coming from very early on in the episode - it’s the obvious solution, and they should have thought of it so much earlier. Yes, if conquest, not charity, is what Klingons care about, just let them “conquer” Faan Alpha!
I think the debate club is exactly the place for the conversation - Vance and Starfleet are following the PD. They've made the offer, been declined, and are...well, not respecting it, but obeying it. The worst you can say about them is that they're being persistent, trying to convince someone in the Klingon leadership structure to change their mind. That may be a little obnoxious, but I don't think it violates any Starfleet principles to give it a shot.
That leaves the cadets to debate whether respecting the Klingons' wishes is a good thing in this case, and I don't think there's any indication that the debate has any weight to it - it's not going to affect Federation foreign policy.
I liked that "good" debaters tended to fall back on Federation law and Starfleet regulations, whereas the message is to continue to treat people with respect to their culture and identity (even if that identity is sometimes muddled).
it’s the obvious solution, and they should have thought of it so much earlier.
I do agree, but (a) Starfleet's pretty out of practice with this stuff, and we saw in the premiere just how black-and-white they became during the Burn, and (b) if it doesn't work out...well, you've got a botched "Vulcan Hello" on your hands, which isn't great.
If they’re going to throwing regulations and laws around, doesn’t the actual Prime Directive exist anymore?
Caleb explicitly mentions the Prime Directive, stating that it doesn't apply here, but without explaining why not. I always understood that this directive applies only to pre-warp societies, which the Klingon society is not, but I may be wrong.
The PD applies to all civilizations, but is more permissive with those that are already capable of FTL travel. When a species is out travelling the galaxy, you can interact and negotiate with them, but you can't directly interfere with their business.
Caleb is leaning hard into the "pre-warp" side of it, as many fans tend to do, which is why he said those particular regulations don't apply. He's just conveniently ignoring the rest of the PD, assuming it's still in force in the 32nd century.
Edit: I'm wrong - I was conflating Caleb's argument and the earlier debate about returning to pre-warp times. Caleb's argument isn't explained, and we funny get to hear what he's saying immediately before.
I agree that the resolution to the conflict was obvious and it took the episode a bit too long to get there.
Not sure about the PD. I guess it is complicated by the fact that we are talking about the Klingons, a foe and friend for like a millennium. It's hard to turn away from their struggle. But the federation comes across as if they're not looking at Klingons on the same level. Like "look at this planet, it has lots of Vulcans, you will love it", as if Earthlings would be happy if Klingons showed them a planet and are like "this place is 80% water, take it". I know that's not even discussed in the episode, but that's, at least to me, a bigger point than what the Klingons bring up. Home is where the heart is? But then again, Klingons do what Klingons do, so yeah, let's battle it out