THE POLICE PROBLEM
The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.
99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.
When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.
When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."
When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.
Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.
The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.
All this is a path to a police state.
In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.
Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.
That's the solution.
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Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.
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RULES
① Real-life decorum is expected. Please don't say things only a child or a jackass would say in person.
② If you're here to support the police, you're trolling. Please exercise your right to remain silent.
③ Saying ~~cops~~ ANYONE should be killed lowers the IQ in any conversation. They're about killing people; we're not.
④ Please don't dox or post calls for harassment, vigilantism, tar & feather attacks, etc.
Please also abide by the instance rules.
It you've been banned but don't know why, check the moderator's log. If you feel you didn't deserve it, hey, I'm new at this and maybe you're right. Send a cordial PM, for a second chance.
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ALLIES
• r/ACAB
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INFO
• A demonstrator's guide to understanding riot munitions
• Cops aren't supposed to be smart
• Killings by law enforcement in Canada
• Killings by law enforcement in the United Kingdom
• Killings by law enforcement in the United States
• Know your rights: Filming the police
• Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of 'I can’t breathe' (as of 2020)
• Police aren't primarily about helping you or solving crimes.
• Police lie under oath, a lot
• Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak
• Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street
• Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States
• When the police knock on your door
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ORGANIZATIONS
• NAACP
• National Police Accountability Project
• Vera: Ending Mass Incarceration
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Yeah, that's a good point. She probably didn't have her passport on her, that's likely why they took her into custody and then let her go after verifying her status. But like, this probably wouldn't have happened with the regular police, they would've just radioed in her DL# and had the station confirm her status without her even having to get out of her car (actually, most have a laptop in their car and can probably even do it right at the scene).
As for why they acted this way, I can only assume that it is because they are running on a LOT of adrenaline, since they often are doing high stakes operations, so perhaps their nerves just got the better of them. Still, they definitely how her restitution and an apology. But yeah, if this becomes the norm rather than the exception, something should definitely be done to reign them back in.
Wut? Most citizens don't carry their passports around in their home country.
Hey, quick question, honest question. How heavy are those goalposts? I figure you'd be the one to ask since you have some experience in moving them.
They didn't take long enough to get any information from her. They surrounded her with weapons drawn, opened the door, and dragged her out. I didn't see them asking for ID. Also, nobody is expected to carry a passport. That insane.
You're trying to come up with excuses. I get it. It's hard to admit you were wrong. However, your previous opinions don't define you as a person. Dismissing them is fine. It only makes you stronger. A lot of people, especially now, attach who they are as a person to the opinions that they hold, and they feel attacked when asked to address it. You shouldn't feel this way though. That doesn't define you. You're allowed to, and should be expected to, learn and change as you gain new knowledge.
He's not changing his opinion. He's just doubling down with other, equally fucked, opinions.
I guess pulling petite unarmed women by the hair would constitute "high stakes operations" for cowards
I’m assuming they were on their way somewhere else and the accident was a genuine mistake on their part (which they clearly handled very badly), mainly because they clearly seemed to be intent on just driving away until they noticed they were being filmed.
However, if you have any evidence that they were targeting her specifically, and they rammed her car on purpose in order to get her to stop, I’m all eyes and ears.
Doesn't that make it worse? They tried to hit and run, realised they were being filmed, and decided instead to violently detain someone for no apparent reason.
It's also taking a lot of supposition that they were on their way to catch 'bad guys' already pumped with adrenaline and making mistakes, rather than the simpler explanation that this is just how they operate.
Just a minute ago, you were trying to convince me that violently pulling her out of the car was the worst thing they did, now we’re back to the hit-and-run, which we already discussed at the beginning of the thread. We’re kinda going in circles, aren’t we?
And no, I’m not trying to excuse that either. They should have enough professionalism to admit when they fucked up, and be required to pay some sort of restitution so she can fix her car and pay for her medical bills.
However, there might be more to the story that we don’t really know about, due to the lack of evidence about what happened right before the crash. At the bottom of the article, it states that ICE additionally accused her of having used her car to block their agents from getting through. While we can clearly see that the allegations that she rammed them on purpose are false, there is not enough evidence here to verify or dismiss that claim, but even interfering with them passively is something they are allowed to detain people for, if only temporarily.
Check who you're replying to, that was my first comment in the thread. My point was that you're doing a lot of stretching to come up with reasons why all of their conduct was fine. They hit her, but it's OK because she was maybe blocking them. They were going go hit and run, but it's OK because they've got important business to get to. They dragged her out the car and detained her, but it's OK because they let her go several hours later (ignoring the lack of a real reason to detain her in the first place).
How can you watch videos like this and your first response to be to leap to the defence of ICE?
Because intellectually and morally, he is one of them. Probably, he's just too dweebish to be actually accepted as an "agent", even by ICE.....
Please don’t put words in my mouth. I never said what they did was okay, and I still believe they should compensate her for the damage they caused.
The “maybe she was blocking them” is pure speculation based on their own testimony from the article. Since they clearly already lied regarding who hit whom, I’m not inclined to believe it until I see any evidence for it. All I’m saying is there could be more to the story that we haven’t seen yet, so I’m suspending my judgment for the time being.
You seem to be going out of your way to find some justification for their actions, I'm arguing that that is backwards. You can't just lean on 'they should compensate her' as if that would erase the actions.
Let's play the hypothetical game in the opposite direction. Maybe she lost her job as a result of this. Maybe that means she can't afford food and rent, and ended up on the street. What compensation would make that OK, and how do you imagine she'd be able to pursue it?
Well, this is why it's important to get as much evidence as possible about what really happened, isn't it? Otherwise, it's just one person's word against another's.
Granted, none of us here know the full story. But based on the evidence we have, they did not have grounds to follow through on any supposed charges, as she was released later on.
What I put to you, is that even if she had deliberately rammed their car in the first place (which and clearly hadn't) the 'officers' reacted in a far more confrontational manner than was necessary, the approach to the car escalated to dragging out a nonviolent and unaggressive pedestrian within seconds. Do you think that is justified? Would you be willing to concede that this is an example of ICE escalating a situation by responding with unnecessary aggression?
I'll also go one further, and suggest that this is but one of many examples of ICE creating more problems than they could possibly solve. The FBI is warning ICE to identify themselves, because now what is happening is cars full of armed, masked men are pulling up and essentially kidnapping people, I'm surprised no-one has responded with deadly force in self-defense yet.
you only assume all of that because you want to justify these cowards
I guess according to you, they had a traffic aCciDEnt and then proceeded to beat and kidnap the woman they just rammed into… and thenelied about it to claim she tried to run them over?… and this is acceptable to you?
kindly go fuck yourself
A person who apologizes for nazi's, is a nazi, too! Hey, nazi?
Yes, sure, let’s just skip all the arguments and go straight to name calling.
What are you, five years old?
WTF are you talking about now? There is NO argument. I've been following your comments, and you're a fucking nazi enabler, despite the clear evidence of their criminal behaviour. And anyone who enables nazi's, is a nazi too ! Grow up instead of doubling down, you chud!
Words, words, words
Keep telling yourself that, nazi ! Then you don't need to look at yourself and see how foul and ugly your kind really is.
From the get-go here I've been working really hard to try and avoid dehumanizing anyone involved in this video, only for you to come along and slap me with a label that allows you and every single one of your "friends" to dehumanize me instead.
Who's really being ugly here?
Work harder at something more moral, ethical and honest, crying nazi !
So you’re saying, as long as I join you in dehumanizing the right people (i.e. those you point at and call Nazis), I will appear moral in your eyes?
How exactly is this any different to what you accuse ICE of doing?
I said you are a nazi, because you support nazi's. I would NEVER want a defective like yourself to "join me", you disgusting sea lion! You are probably ICE scum yourself!
(Sealioning (also sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence, often tangential or previously addressed, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity ("I'm just trying to have a debate"), and feigning ignorance of the subject matter.[5][6][7][8] It may take the form of "incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate",[9] and has been likened to a denial-of-service attack targeted at human beings....)
I had fun toying with you but you aren't open to facts or learning, so I'll not waste any more of my time on you, Nazi. Now get yourself well and truly lost, you weirdo! If you are indeed ICE, you will pay one day.
Ad hominem (Latin for 'to the person'), short for argumentum ad hominem, refers to several types of arguments where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than the substance of the argument itself. This avoids genuine debate by creating a diversion often using a totally irrelevant, but often highly charged attribute of the opponent's character or background. The most common form of this fallacy is "A" makes a claim of "fact", to which "B" asserts that "A" has a personal trait, quality or physical attribute that is repugnant thereby going off-topic, and hence "B" concludes that "A" has their "fact" wrong – without ever addressing the point of the debate.
Man you’re an excuse generator. Should learn how to monetize it.
Thanks, do you have any suggestions on how? Management or politics, perhaps?
if it’s a “genuine mistake” while on their way somewhere else then the narrative is this: they saw a latino driving and decided to pull her over by smashing into her car, getting out in full combat gear and masks, pointing automatic weapons at her, dragging her out of the car by her hair, kneeling on her back, and forming an armed blockade between her and the public
there’s no genuine mistake here that doesn’t paint them as racially profiling her
even if she were an undocumented armed gang member this is not the way law enforcement should behave
I agree, but what if there's more to the story we don't know about. The article says ICE also claimed she was using her car to block them from getting through, which which would be illegal, and if that is true, she kinda got off easy because they didn't even charge her with anything.
However, this is not up to me to decide. This should go before a proper court of law. I am not qualified for this.
Is this also protecting US citizens? https://lemmy.world/post/38281052
I’d wager they think yes because “muh gunz”
Are we really just going trust his lawyer on this one, without any fucking evidence whatsoever?
Dude are you trying to beat the record of the most downvoted person on lemmy?
Bro I'm not even subscribed to this community. I was pinged here because y'all needed someone to make an example of.