A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!
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In the absence of a flair system on lemmy yet, let’s try to make it easier to scan through posts by type in here by using tags:
The average transaction price for a new car now sits around $50,000.
I could ride a NYC subway or bus 16,666 times for that, assuming I never do more than 12 rides in a week to trip the "rest of the week is free" condition.
"Make cars cheaper" is a stupid solution that won't scale well. Cars do tremendous damage to the environment and our society. But I expect everyone subscribed to "Fuck Cars" already knows that.
You can get a decent older, nothing fancy, riding horse for ~$3k and pay about $11k/yr for upkeep, significantly less if you’ve got space for them. Plus, ride the same route to and from the bar and they’ll memorize it- your own personal designated driver who like tips in apples!
$11k/yr for upkeep
That's a lot. What's included?
A horse mostly, they are expensive to keep around nowadays.
Yes, but what's included for the horse? Food? Vet? Horseshoes? Grooming? Insurance? Apples? Do I still have to visit it daily or for $11/k there's someone there taking care of him when I'm away?
Food, ferrier, routine healthcare, housing. Your biggest cost is housing, and the cost of that varies wildly by how fancy you want to get with it. I went with the low-mid end of decent amenities, similar to dog boarding. The horse has protection from elements, a bit of human interaction, space to be outside. I did not include insurance. However, ime, horse vets can be drastically less expensive than small animal vets for similar procedures. I have always gotten the impression this is because dog/cat healthcare is a much bigger industry and like human healthcare it jacks up the price because it can. I also didn’t include tack, but that’s also one of those things where the cost is dependent on how fancy one wants to get with it.
That does sound pretty cheap. In southern Spain I see people horse riding all the time. I live very close to a big city and I still pass people on horses on public roads from time to time. I think the biggest issue would be carrying my groceries. I would probably need a donkey too.
I have always gotten the impression this is because dog/cat healthcare is a much bigger industry and like human healthcare it jacks up the price because it can.
I learned from Rick & Morty that it's because horses have bigger organs so less qualified surgeons can operate on them.
Western US here. I’m in an urban area where a lot of the farmland that turned into housing in the mid-1900s didn’t become modern subdivisions, so we still have sections of the city where people have enough land to keep their own horse, plus stables on the outskirts. Haven’t seen a horse in downtown in a while, but still see them on side roads, on the walking path along the river, and a lot in the hiking trails that run north of the city, which are basically an extension of the town at this point. When I was a kid in the 80s/90s there was a bar in the farm town about 6mi outside the city that had a hitching post out front and the cowboys still rode there to drink.
"inexpensive car" is a myth that keep getting repeated. Car can seems cheap up front but it could inflate in cost in the long run due to fuel and maintenance. Not to mention it's a deprecating asset, doing serious damage to the environment in the long run, dangerous machine that often misused.
"but my fuel is cheap!"
Yeah? Because it's subsidised, using your tax that's better used for something else.
You are talking about total cost of ownership.
Car can seems cheap up front
Not anymore, which is the point of this article.
“but my fuel is cheap!”
Don't forget the "but muh freedom!". Let them now enjoy their freedom to stay at home since there's not even sidewalks :-|
I think realistically this is the only way public transport will start to be forced past the car companies that lobby against it. Once the actual labour starts getting hit and affected, they'll have no choice.
American downtowns used to be sweet.
Most big cities had extensive electric trolleys you could hop on and off of for free. Walkable cities with decent public transportation that didn't pollute the air!
And we replaced that so we could have a bunch of shitty cars burning leaded gasoline for decades....
Really explains the boomers and silent generation.... And hell, Gen X probably grew up with some that sweet leaded gas fumes, and lead paint. And there's still extensive lead pipes serving water.
There’s an episode of the Little Rascals where the kid wants to be a street car conductor. Not much demand for that job today. Boy, do they pick up the nickels!
For a handful of years, we'd keep lead additive in the truck. Every fill up we'd add lead to the tank. GenX with just a bit of lead in the brain.
Exactly. Lead fuel additives are still sold...
Race cars tend to use them. Explains NASCAR....
"Now"??
"Back then the amount remained the same" > "Now the amount is growing". But i get your point and agree cars were always expensive.
It makes sense if you define car ownership in ~2024 as "affordable"
In 1979, when my parents bought a new Dodge Aspen wagon, its price of $5,000 was around the median car price, at about ⅓ of the median annual wage. That's about $22,000 in 2026 dollars, which is about ⅓ of the median annual wage now. But the median car price is up to $50,000.
Presumeably the article author has been insulated and didn't realize that other people outside of their tax bracket exist.
I hear "the white imperial core" thrown around a lot.
NYTrash is the worst imperial garbage.
Car dependency has always been an unsustainable grift benefiting the most privileged at the cost of the planetary destruction.
Don't expect these liars to have a clue about this.
This country only works if gas is cheap...and it's already too late for that. Oopsie daisy I guess.
Or electricity, if we weren’t afraid of change. But even with some of the highest electricity prices in the country, I pay about half what i would for gas
I pay about half what i would for gas
For now... But ultimately EVs are unsustainable too. It's just kicking the can while the planet burns.
Don’t let perfect be the enemy of progress
Replacing ICE cars with EVs are a solid amount of progress, it’s progress within control of individuals, and it’s progress that can change society in a decade or two.
Transit and walkability would be better but I can’t do anything about that and significant progress would be a century or more.
Nah. With the right reforms, we could make cities walkable in a decade.
Of course, good infrastructure and transit would be nice, too. But these reforms would cost very little money and could be implemented immediately, and would likely result in a city overrun with chaotic, uncontrollable ebike traffic - which I'm okay with.
Car companies passed a bunch of laws prohibiting competition and alternatives and got trillions in subsidies. Now they're welfare programs for the nations dumbest and most pampered CEOs.
Well well well if it isn't the consequences of our own stupid actions
The Happy Motoring Society was never sustainable
Now people are using electric bikes and scooters.
The solution is to sells homes to companies so they can be closer to the rest of the homes....some homes will become Walmarts, others could be made into universities or schools or hardware stores or software companies. Blah....none of this we have here in Kenmore WA for example... You can walk to the nearest store during spring. In summer you might die from a heatstroke, in winter you might become a Popsicle before even getting to the store located downhill and to the east along the top of lake Washington. Its no joke. There are no homeless people looking thru my trash ever...because they literally can't physically make it. There's no point in collecting enough aluminum cans to eat if you need to eat more than that to collect the cans.
Its a dumb place, I didn't choose to be here but it was the place I could afford that was closest to work. Hint hint...its nice that the city is charging us like $1000 bucks extra this year to add and repair sidewalks. Continue! Add a bus station nearby and allow people to have business from home...which eventually could become a workplace. Go from a bunch of houses to a variety of buildings. I can dream. I just need to jump off my high horse.
What really sux is oftentimes the more car friendly areas are expensive and the people living their drive cars because they have the money to buy there and have a car. I don't get why they don't live out further if they like cars so much but it is what it is.
They also forgot to put heavy cause of pollution in that title
The whole car-centric lifestyle is unhealthy and unsustainable.
Maybe stop putting in huge electronic systems I don't want
Honestly, there have only been a few improvements to vehicles since the year 1990 that I actually appreciate
i'm so grateful to live in a city with decent public transit (seattle)
none of my social life adventures would be possible without it
highly recommend cities if you're able to. they're always so much nicer to live in than suburbs or rural shitholes
Regardless of whether they are right or wrong, what a terrible article comparing all kinds of apples and oranges and jumping to conclusions.
cheap planet scorching cats
Read in another article yesterday, the avg price of an automobile is 50k in the US. Average.
At no point have cars ever been "inexpensive", they've just been more or less obtainable. Big difference, a car has always been a very large purchase.