this post was submitted on 03 May 2026

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Ye Power Trippin' Bastards

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-13

Banned from dbzer0/Palestine for pointing out most Jews support Israel (europe.pub)

submitted 2 weeks ago* (last edited 1 week ago) by geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml to c/yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com

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Moderator on dbzero /Palestine believes pointing out that 80-90% of Jews worldwide are Zionists is antisemitic

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[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 23 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Regular reminder that yptb is to judge the mod action and not to rehash the discussion which led to the mod action

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The discussion is extremely relevant and directly coupled to the action.

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Not really.

[–] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 32 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Trying to equate Zionism with all Jews is antisemitic by definition. It doesn't matter if its 50% or 90% of Jewish people who support Zionism. It's a trap to do so since then you can be dismissed for being antisemitic, which seems to be the case here.

If all you are arguing is that the majority of Jews support Zionism, well that's probably true. But let's not fall for the antisemitic trap of judging every member of a religion by the worst examples. Otherwise we are no better than the folks who characterise all muslims as violent terrorists.

[+] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml -8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

So if someone denies that the vast majority of Jews are Zionists nobody is allowed to correct them because that's "antisemitic". Got it.

Nice throwing the false Muslim terrorist equation in there but the vast majority of Muslims do not support ISIS or any similar organisation. But if they did would it be Islamophobic to correct someone saying they didn't?

[–] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I think it's fine to point out that a majority of Jews are Zionists, but the implication that it's ok to judge an entire religion by it's worst members, even if they are a majority, is not ok. Because that's how we people make the leap from "death to Zionists" to "death to Jews". One is a statement of solidarity with the Palestinian cause. The other is just plain old antisemitism, disguised as social justice.

[+] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml -8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Because that's how we people make the leap from "death to Zionists" to "death to Jews".

It isn't. Your stance is how we get Zohran Mamdani condemning protests outside a Synagogue selling stolen Palestinian land. Pointing out the systemic Zionism in Jewish institutions doesn't mean "wishing death upon all Jews."

You did just literally wish death upon 80-90% of Jews worldwide though. Doesn't that make you the antisemite?

https://ofpatmos.substack.com/p/fight-jewish-exceptionalism

Anyone who holds Jewish exceptionalist sympathies is thus primed to be manipulated into liberal Zionist ideas & solutions, and primed to be sympathetic to Israelis when working towards the best outcomes for Palestinians is often going to require us to have much harder hearts. If one believes that there is something special about Jews in this way, then when the time comes to take coercive actions that are sure to harm Israeli Jews and hurt the feelings of their Jewish supporters abroad, we will not be able to count on their support.

It’s easy to claim to support BDS when it’s not being done at scale yet, but will you be able to withstand the inevitable attempts at emotional manipulation if sanctions and blockades are ever truly imposed upon Israel? Will you falter when you hear about how much this is harming (gasp!) Jewish Israelis?

When the time comes to evict the Israeli settlers from the West Bank, will you laugh in the face of those framing it as an ethnic cleansing of poor, vulnerable, innately oppressed Jews and a Second Holocaust?

[–] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It isn’t. Your stance is how we get Zohran Mamdani condemning protests outside a Synagogue selling stolen Palestinian land. Pointing out the systemic Zionism in Jewish institutions doesn’t mean “wishing death upon all Jews.”

If a synagogue is engaged in Zionism like selling stolen Palestinian land, then they deserve to be condemned for it. But not because they are Jewish, because they are Zionists.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml -3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Sure. I don't disagree with that. But the question is: do these synagogues not accurately represent Judaism if the overwhelming majority of Synagogues and Jewish religious institutions are Zionist? Because the OOP says they're not and I got banned only for correcting them that they are.

Someone mentioned below the majority of Christians are Zionist I agree with them. Nobody has a problem pointing out that most Christians are Zionist. and most Christinian institutions are Zionist.

But for some reason when you point out the same thing for Jews, somehow that's wishing death upon all Jews. In that case why wouldn't the same go for Zionist Christians being in danger if someone pointed out how deep the Zionist movement is within the (especially Evangelical) church?

The crux of this comes back to the belief that Jews in the modern day are an oppressed minority at the cusp of being thrown into the ovens again. Luckily my favorite substack author has also addressed this https://tariqacknickulous.substack.com/p/privileged-reality-of-jewish-demographics

At the heart of every argument within the spectrum of Zionism lies the uncritically accepted belief that Jews are an eternally oppressed people and that antisemitism is a constant, rampant threat. The charge of antisemitism often functions as a thought-terminating cliché, deployed not only by staunch Zionists but even by well-meaning individuals who identify as pro-Palestine. Yet few pause to critically examine this assumption. What is the actual reality of Jewish oppression today, and how does contemporary antisemitism compare to the narrative so widely accepted?

By any objective measure, Jews are not a marginalized or oppressed group. Rather than facing structural or systemic oppression, they represent one of the most privileged demographics globally. The Jewish population is overwhelmingly concentrated in wealthy Western nations and their own ethnostate, societies that dominate the global imperial order. Within these power centers, Jewish communities consistently rank among the most affluent and highly educated groups, outperforming nearly all other demographics in measures of economic success and social mobility.

“As anti-Semitic barriers quickly fell away after World War II, Jews rose to preeminence in the United States. According to Lipset and Raab, per capita Jewish income is almost double that of non-Jews; sixteen of the forty wealthiest Americans are Jews; 40 percent of American Nobel Prize winners in science and economics are Jewish, as are 20 percent of professors at major universities; and 40 percent of partners in the leading law firms in New York and Washington. The list goes on. Far from constituting an obstacle to success, Jewish identity has become the crown of that success. Just as many Jews kept Israel at arm’s length when it constituted a liability and became born-again Zionists when it constituted an asset, so they kept their ethnic identity at arm’s length when it constituted a liability and became born-again Jews when it constituted an asset.” — Norman Finkelstein, The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering (2000)

[–] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

But for some reason when you point out the same thing for Jews, somehow that’s wishing death upon all Jews. In that case why wouldn’t the same go for Zionist Christians being in danger if someone pointed out how deep the Zionist movement is within the (especially Evangelical) church?

Saying something like "An estimated 80-90% of Jews in modern time are also Zionists" with stats to back it up is perfectly fine to say, but it's also worth acknowledging the fact that "10-20% of Jews are not Zionists".

What you seem to be arguing is that, because Jews are majority Zionist, we should treat every Jewish person as though they are Zionist. The problematic part is in bold:

80-90% of Jews in modern time are Zionists. Zionism is the accurately representative of modern Judaism. Especially religious Judaism where virtually every present day synagogue is Zionist.

This is simply conflating Zionism with being Jewish as though they are the same thing. While the majority of Jews may well be Zionists (I don't know whether the 80-90% figure is accurate or not, but let's assume for the sake of argument it is), it's still wrong imo to characterize all Jews as Zionists. Like another poster mentioned, there are still potentially millions of Jews who do not support Zionism, and/or who oppose Israel's genocide of the Palestinians.

But the question is: do these synagogues not accurately represent Judaism if the overwhelming majority of Synagogues and Jewish religious institutions are Zionist?

No, they don't - and you are making the same mistake again. Pro-Zionist Jewish synagogues cannot be said to represent Judaism as a whole, because not all Jews are Zionists, and not all Jews attend Temple. Why do you feel the need to stereotype all Jews, and all congregations as being the same? YDI.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml -2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Saying something like “An estimated 80-90% of Jews in modern time are also Zionists” with stats to back it up is perfectly fine to say, but it’s also worth acknowledging the fact that “10-20% of Jews are not Zionists”.

Yes that's literally done by saying not 100% of Jews are Zionists but 80 to 90%. It'd be great if it was more. In fact most (especially European) Jews used to oppose Zionism until Zionist Jews worked together with the Nazis to literally kill off non-Zionist Jews and force the rest of them to become Zionists.

And now we're in the present where the equation has massively changed. And we're not talking about 55 or 60%. We're talking overwhelming majority numbers. 80 to 90%.

To dismiss the beliefs of 12 million people because of a max 3 million people not sharing their view doesn't make any sense. Why would the views of the overwhelming majority of a group not accurately represent them, but a small minority do? If this argument was about anything else but the percentage of Jews being Zionist, this wouldn't even be a debate. It 90% of Christians supported Zionism then Zionist Christianity would be an accurate representation of Christianity.

it’s still wrong imo to characterize all Jews as Zionists. Like another poster mentioned, there are still potentially millions of Jews who do not support Zionism, and/or who oppose Israel’s genocide of the Palestinians.

Why do you feel the need to stereotype all Jews, and all congregations as being the same?

Why do you keep misrepresenting my argument which doesn't state that all Jews are Zionist but the majority are? Why is it "antisemitic" to simply correct this notion?

Because your argument is rooted in Liberal Zionism. I pick this battle because I actually support Palestine. Here's a much longer format explanation if you still don't get it after the articles.

Jewish Exceptionalism, Liberal Zionism, Jewish Supremacy - How YOU Inadvertently Support Israel

[–] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Because your argument is rooted in Liberal Zionism.

No, it's rooted in an understanding of how harmful majority stereotypes are. You completely ignored the bolded sentence which was the one I identified as antisemitic, and instead focused on the first sentence, which I agreed was fine.

80-90% of Jews in modern time are Zionists [FINE]. Zionism is the accurately representative of modern Judaism [ANTISEMITIC].

You could safely reword it to something like "The majority of Jews support Zionism". That would be accurate.

Otherwise it's no different from claiming something like "80% of gay men are promiscuous [made up statistic btw]" and then going on to state "Promiscuity is accurately representative of male homosexuality" as though it were true for every gay man.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

OP’s black-and-white thinking* leads him in these directions sometimes. He keeps getting mentions on c/meanwhileongrad despite not being a “tankie,” since dialectical materialism is the furthest thing from dichotomous thinking.

*I don’t mean to psychologize; the wiki entry just happens to be categorized as such.

[–] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 week ago

Agreed, and it's an all too common mistake that I'm sure we have all been guilty of at one time or another.

[–] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 week ago

And now we’re in the present where the equation has massively changed. And we’re not talking about 55 or 60%. We’re talking overwhelming majority numbers. 80 to 90%.

Then you believe collective punishment is correct and justified. Where have I heard that one before...

[–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 27 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (3 children)

YDM. I mean, you actually wrote this:

You’re undermining to pro-Palestine movement by calling everything and everyone who opposes Israel antisemitic.

... in response to a comment that not only was not "calling everything and everyone who opposes Israel antisemitic" (it says your characterization of Jews might be), but which actually says "I despise the Apartheid colonialist political ideology that is zionism".

You are undermining the pro-Palestine movement by equating zionism with jewishness, to the point that I am becoming increasingly skeptical about your actual motivations.

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[–] TherapyGary@lemmy.blahaj.zone 25 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (9 children)

The context in which you "pointed it out" is hella sus. It's hard to imagine a motivation to say that when, where, and how you did that isn't driven by antisemitism. You sound like one of the "Despite making up 13% of the population..." chuds, which is gonna get you an instaban anywhere with respectable mods. I wanna say BPR because you should absolutely know better

Side note: Every Jewish person I know (like a dozen) is anti-zionist, so I don't really give af about your Nazi statistics- don't bother arguing about it with me

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[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I wouldn't ban OP for it, but they're making some bad and suspect arguments.

Most importantly there's no objective criteria for people being "jewish". So any poll is fairly suspect at its face. IMO zionists shouldn't be considered jewish/christian/etc but their own particular cult.

It's also important to note that the vast majority of zionists are christians.

Etc.

Anyway I appreciate OP's posts overall so I would just say please chill with this.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

What's "suspect" about large scale studies on Zionism by mainstream news outlets?

It's also important to note that the vast majority of zionists are christians

Isn't it funny how nobody cares when you point out something for Christians but they flip when you point out the same thing for Jews.

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 1 week ago

YDI!

[–] belated_frog_pants@beehaw.org 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Well for one thing thats a bullshit number and regurgitation of nazi propaganda is likely what got you banned.

Zionism is not equivalent to judaism and its sus as fuck to act like it is. You dont wanna be seen as a nazi sympathizer, then dont regurgitate their talking points.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml -4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

So let me get this clear: you are saying that the overwhelming majority of Jews are not Zionists and anyone who says otherwise is a Nazi?

[–] redrumBot@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The Jewish people remain an oppressed minority, therefore, in my opinion, any analysis of Judaism (ethnic or religious) vs. Zionism vs. Israel must start from the basis of special respect for that minority.

Even if there were studies that support that percentage you point out, any reference should be made with care, moderation, and contextualization and, strictly speaking, it corresponds more to an internal debate in the Jewish community (to which I do not belong).

In conclusion: YDI (I assume it was a tempban).

Death to Israel

[–] BillMangionee@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The Jewish people remain an oppressed minority...

Can we really count Jews as "oppressed" in 2026?

IMO, they are arguably the most privileged minority in the west with their proximity to whiteness, specific codified anti-hate-crime/"antisemitism" laws, and a literal ethnostate guaranteed by imperialist hegemony.

[–] Grainne@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Considering that antisemitism still exists, Jewish people are murdered for being Jewish, their places of worship are attacked, and that NeoNazis still consider them enemy number 1; Yes, we can count them as oppressed, and to a degree most minorities do not suffer.

[–] BillMangionee@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 week ago

I associate the words "oppression" and "repression" with actions performed by states or non-government authorities.

I'm not going to continue this discussion, since its off-topic.

[–] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 week ago

FYI OP has been home instance banned for a couple of weeks.

[–] BillMangionee@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

So, preceding to not follow into the same trap as the remainder commenters here have made of addressing the content and not the mod action...

You ban someone for making a comment (because you disagree with them) just to have the discussion continue in another board/community (this thread).

Whats was the point in banning them then?

Just let their comment remain and get down-voted to the floor of the thread - that's the point of voting on a comment. Now the discussion has been pulled out of the community that had informed subscribers, and into one that has broadly zero overlap with c/palestine.

BPR - Bait-Provoked Reaction: That mod probably overreacted in charged situation, or due to being baited.

[–] hdnclr@beehaw.org 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I am interested in your suggestion that the community downvote this to the bottom of the thread. My instance, on principle, does not do downvotes (there is no downvote button in the Beehaw web interface), so we don't really have that option.

It feels a bit too reddit-like to have open trolls commenting in our communities, but constantly being downvoted to the bottom of threads. Idk if I like it as a community self-moderation tactic - especially when communities are flinging accusations at each other and people take to simply downvoting things because they disagree, and not on any kind of policies or principles...

[–] BillMangionee@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

First, I'm new to actively using lemmy, so I'm gradually learning the etiquette on here, and how it differs from other forums. Also, I did not know the downvote button is disabled on your instance, so thank you for the context.

It feels a bit too reddit-like to have open trolls commenting in our communities, but constantly being down voted to the bottom of threads

Sure, if they are actual trolls, and we can define that together in this thread or as a community. However, this user was an active commenter in several news/palestine-related communities, and lets just be honest, was not trolling or derailing the discussion. He disagreed with the OP (and to an extent I share a similar view) that Judaism and American Jews have deep sympathies to Israel, and this manifests in material structures in the United States (synagogues, community orgs, PACs, etc)

OKAY PAUSE

if that last statement is ban worthy because its trolling or "anti-semitism" , how the hell are we supposed to actually have this debate? Then this isn't trolling and this is where active discussion and voting should take place in the thread. Keep in mind, the person who flung accusations was the mod of the community when he said " You're not an anti-semite are you?"

Thats why I think this is blatant mod abuse because there seems to be this unnecessary over-moderation and that's exhibited by the guy continuing the convo in this thread which is unrelated to the community. Overall this fractures discussion across the entire website, not just the individual instance.

Last, you're going to have to prove the commenter has a repeated history of posting out-of-topic or bait. Not just a singular instance of a disagreement in perspective, and calling out a mod for a flimsy argument using his own rhetoric.

[–] hdnclr@beehaw.org 1 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Judaism and American Jews have deep sympathies to Israel, and this manifests in material structures in the United States (synagogues, community orgs, PACs, etc)

This is exactly why he got in trouble, because he couldn't just put the word "most" or "many" in there, and tried to paint all Jewish folks as genocide-supporters, and then doubled down, didn't seem to understand how the study he cited could be flawed (sure, let anyone self-identify as Jewish and answer hot-button questions in a country where the Christian majority actually are the ones who are insanely Zionist)

Nobody seems content with critically thinking - "who would someone behave in this manner?" is a question you should ask yourself, and "they want to slander Jewish people" is in the range of possible answers. I'm glad to hear that this behavior isn't typical of the user in question. The mods probably should have warned and muted them on that particular instance, and maybe educated them about refraining from believing and spreading this type of rhetoric on Lemmy. Maybe they wouldn't be on a reactionary streak and doubling down on their positions if they'd been given a chance to save face...

[–] BillMangionee@lemmy.ml 1 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

This is exactly why he got in trouble, because he couldn’t just put the word “most” or “many” in there, and tried to paint all Jewish folks as genocide-supporters

He specifically said 80-90%, he also called them Zionists not genocide supporters which has a broader definition, anywhere from supporting Israeli state in Palestine to believing Jewish people should have some kind of sovereignty.

Nobody seems content with critically thinking - “who would someone behave in this manner?” is a question you should ask yourself

You and the mod are distorting this persons comment from what he said with this manor of thinking. Then you want to block the discussion from even happening that can disqualify it. Just let him get either downvoted to hell or dunked on in the comments. I dont see the point of the intense censorship on behalf of these ten fifty whatever percent of american jews that will be slighted that their religion has been conflated with zionism when there is literally a star of david on the f35 bombing children in now lebanon.