this post was submitted on 05 Jul 2026
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[–] dropdrip@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 hours ago

And then China rapidly developed to be the world's leader. Meanwhile the USA continues to burn and Western-democracies crumble, espousing there's no money for any public-programs. Quality of life degrades materially and education degrades. All whilst the media's mouthpieces say socialism does not work, whilst the system of communist thought took two countries, in a hostile environment, from backwaters to parity of the world's capitalist hedgemon.

I unfortunately think it's true that the majority of a citizenry do not understand the social order/the economy that they live in, nor do they have an interest in it.

[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 1 points 8 hours ago

Something similar happened to Japan between 1868 and 1910, minus the space age

[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 9 points 15 hours ago

Capitalism doesn't work. The success of the USSR's planned economy are near the bottom of that page.

[–] Malyca@lemmy.zip -1 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

You realize the Soviet Union wasn't communist right?

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 5 points 8 hours ago

Soviet Union was a socialist state governed by a communist party.

[–] Cris_Citrus@piefed.zip 14 points 22 hours ago (4 children)

Actual question, what caused the collapse of the soviet Union? I'm sure answers will be simplifications but I wish I knew more about the history

[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 8 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

This article makes a succinct argument, but essentially the reasons for its fall:

  • The cold war arms race upped by Reagan - a huge drain on both material and mental resources that would've been better allocated to other industries. The US's constant military pressure and brinksmanship forced the USSR to play catchup against an opponent with a larger chip stack.
  • The USSR acted as anchor and banker to many third world revolutionary projects, which proved an additional drain on its economy. PRC avoided this mistake by being strictly non-interventionist, and avoiding these dangerous foreign policy traps.
  • De-linking from the world economy and not being able to take advantage of the newest technology and consumer products from the west. The PRC corrected this mistake by the 1980s.
  • Capitulations by Gorbachev to begin the process of privatization and dismantle the planned economy. PRC also avoided this by strengthening its publicly owned portion of the economy, refusing to privatize them, and making sure they commanded the top position.
[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 7 points 13 hours ago

It's also important to add the overarching context here which is that the US got to sit WW2 out and develop its industries while the rest of the world burned. So, when it started the Cold War, the US was far ahead economically and used its advantage to drag USSR into the arms race. And the western world has been riding that advantage ever since.

[–] SuperApples@lemmy.world 4 points 14 hours ago

My simplest explanation is that Russia's powerful wanted to be in charge and look out for themselves, just extracting weath from the other union members who they tried to keep in line with violence. Democracy was a farce and there were no plans to transfer power to the proletariat. This lead to separatist movements in many countries, violent and peaceful.

The Chernobyl incident seems to be the nail in the coffin, bankrupting the state if they didn't get outside money. The Russian elite then shut the whole thing down, rigging the sell off of state assets (aka the whole economy) to create the oligarchy and an ultra capitalist Russia, and the reinvigoratation of the church and conservatism, undoing social progress too.

I'm sure there other big factors too but they're the main ones that stuck with me, after going to dozens of museums throughout eastern Europe, the Caucasus and Russia.

[–] cornishon@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 20 hours ago
[–] folaht@lemmy.ml -1 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

Short version: The blackmailing of oil rich Saudi Arabia and other nations by the US

I'm going to against the grain of popular theory here and
come up with my own and say the evolution of fossil fuels
did not bode well for the Soviet Union, so bad luck really.
You see, your system can be much better than the other,
but if don't have the resources and by resources I mean energy resources,
because they provide production and transport, if you don't have those,
you're out of luck.

if you look at when the GDP in the Soviet Union started to stall,
it's around 1975, five years after the 1970 US oil peak,
causing the US economy to crash and spiral out of control,
while the Soviet Union and the Middle East was thriving.

The USSR had an enormous amount of oil like the US did before,
but the problem with oil is that it competes with coal and oil is more
easy to transport, so it's more likely for oil to flow to
the country producing the most coal than the other way around.

Prior to the 1970s, the US was the largest oil producer in the world by
far and was thus exporting oil to the rest of the world.
Since they were also producing the most coal in the world,
oil was not a curse to them as electricity provides
the basis for working factories and thus industrialization.
Saudi Arabia, a nation with almost no resources whatsoever and zero coal,
had a very long way to develop itself.

The US then used Israel to start the Yom Kippur war, which it won.
And the US then sent a diplomat to Saudi Arabia and told them that
if they don't want more trouble, they would do exactly as the US tells
them what to do which was:

  • Sell all your oil in US dollars only, no exceptions
  • Invest all your profits in the US only, no exceptions
  • If you make profits from those investments keep. You can do what you want with it.
  • In exchange, we will give you military protection from other nations.

This is the petrodollar scheme and it worked.
And it didn't just work for Saudi Arabia,
but other middle eastern countries.
On top of that SWIFT was introduced around the same time.

This allowed the US to go into massive debt,
receiving enormous amounts of money for investment,
while the Soviet Union, whose growth was dependent on selling oil,
saw it's currency rate fall.

And we're seeing the same playbook happening right now again,
with different factors and therefore different effects.
This time China is the target, but it is producing the most coal in the world,
the most solar power in the world, the most wind power in the world,
and the most hydro power in the world.
A low currency rate for a country that mostly sells
manufactured goods instead profoundly different effect
compared to a nation that mostly relied on
the production and export of oil.

And even the situation in Russia and Iran are different from last century
as natural gas has strengthened both nations.

[–] NebulaNomad@lemmy.world -4 points 21 hours ago (3 children)

You have no idea how people lived there...

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 7 points 14 hours ago

I literally grew up in USSR fucko

[–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 20 hours ago

Yes I do, my family is from there

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 9 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

No you. You are not immune to anticommunist propaganda.

[–] SpicyLizards@reddthat.com 0 points 22 hours ago

Or anywhere else.