No Stupid Questions
No such thing. Ask away!
!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.
The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:
Rules (interactive)
Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.
All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.
Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.
Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.
Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.
That's it.
Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.
Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.
If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.
Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.
If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.
Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.
Let everyone have their own content.
Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here. This includes using AI responses and summaries.
Credits
Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!
The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!
view the rest of the comments
That is a bad idea because now someone else can also check how you've voted. I.e. you can be coerced or threatened to vote a certain way. The current system is anonymous. You can vote X but say you voted Y and nobody can prove different.
The idea of it being numbered is that you are given your number when you vote to check against later, but nobody else is given that number so they can't tie the vote to you.
Often times the people this would hurt most would be the spouses of abusive individuals. They could force the receipt, and would be able to confirm their victim voted the way they were told.
Sure while this is a concern, why aren't we instead looking into the abuse vs suggesting we no do something because of another problem?
Not at all saying we shouldn't look into the abuse, but unless the victim tells someone, there's no way to know it's happening? I don't really get what you're suggesting here.
I'm suggesting that if the abuse is large enough that it swings entire elections, then it should be looked into as a why it's happening vs saying we shouldn't do something about voter fraud because something else might happen.
Spousal abuse is only one concern, also parent/child coercion (you're an adult now, you can't live in my house unless you vote the way I want). Another would be buying votes, and using the "receipt" to collect payment.
You could just burn your number then.
and then the coercion is simply you give me your number or i hurt you
there is no way that you can make a system where you are able to validate your vote after the fact, and also is safe from coercion
What's stopping the abuser from demanding a photo of their filled out ballot? Idk why there's a huge thread about this hypothetical. Are a certain point you can't create policy defined by a tiny minority.
there are signs and staff everywhere ensuring that nobody takes photos of anything
and even if you could, you can request another ballot paper
and that is why we run elections like we do: because this system is secure and you don’t need to validate your ballot paper… when you introduce machines like the US has, that exposes huge flaws that poke holes in a very robust system for little gain
the tiny minority is validating your individual vote; not abuse and coercion
Except without self validation you potentially run into tallya being tweaked. Let's follow the lawsuit, if it turns out tampering happened then what? Saying we can't introduce measures because of rare domestic abuse issues is silly. Full stop. And I don't really care to discuss this first with you. It's starting to feel like you're on a mission to AstroTurf.
no, it can’t… you validate that your personal submission was correct and then the whole point of the scrutineers etc is to make sure that the tallies are both anonymous and correct
if the US conducted their elections like they should then there is no chance of tallies getting “tweaked” as you put it… this is a non-issue and the solution is not to introduce personal validation: it’s to fix the system
no, it’s literally the whole point of the voting system: to ensure everyone has a chance to vote freely
hey mate i’m the one providing explanations and you’re the one just saying no constantly… anonymous ballots is the standard and agreed upon way of running free and fair elections across the entire globe… the system works, and there’s no reason to change it… elections are complex
Or just say they ran out of paper. Like there are more pros than cons to this system. Nothing is going to be perfect.
and then you get hurt regardless… you think abusive partners or criminal organisations care of the printer ran out of paper?
What's stopping them from doing this now?
there is no way for anyone to prove how they voted, so there can be no possible retaliation
think about like… a mafia wanting to control a city government
if there’s no possible way to validate how you voted, they can tell a huge group of people how to vote and you can vote however you like and just say you voted like they wanted: they have no way of knowing either way (same goes for paid votes: they have no way of knowing how you voted so you can vote however you like)
if there’s a way to validate your vote, they can demand your voting slip (or number, or that you show them your validation record) and say they’ll break your legs if you don’t show it… so you vote and say the printer was broken, they’ll probably break your legs regardless (also they’d likely have a way of checking these things… in the case of an abusive relationship, they’d probably accompany you to vote so they’d likely know the status of any hardware like a printer - this isn’t something you can just lie about)
truly nasty organisations and individuals using violence as coercion aren’t likely to just “aw shucks guess i’ll let it go then”. they’re not particularly trusting
now in the current system with no way to validate directly, it doesn’t matter who it is: even the poll workers don’t see your ballot paper… nobody except you sees it. there are no cameras, no people watching over your shoulder, no proof either way after you drop your ballot into the box: you can say whatever you want, and because that’s the standard and known for everyone there no point to anyone saying “prove it”… there’s simply no way, thus there is no way of coercing someone
There is, you could demand a photo.
there are staff everywhere ensuring that nobody takes photos for exactly this reason
Sure... https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/10/28/election-ballot-photo-laws-explained/75891964007/
well we all know that the US electoral system is a complete shit show… that doesn’t mean the general points of how these things are supposed to be run doesn’t remain true… federal law in australia is no photos, and we only use paper ballots for all the reasons mentioned. we never have any of the issues that the US seems to have
That would be nice. Hugely impractical. Especially with today's government. Pretty sure no fault divorce is going to be revoked soon, so it'll only get worse.
Also, was not suggesting that abusive relationships would be enough to swing the election one way or the other, only that this is a valid concern that needs addressed before any sweeping change.
But you can be coerced to give up that number. People can buy your vote and you can give them your number as proof. That's a huuuuge problem. You should not be able to prove (to someone else) how you voted. Ever.
What you need is some kind of systeem that allows you to verify your vote, but which is useless to someone else. It's probably possible. But your idea isn't it.
Transparent urn and public counting ?
You could literally just throw it away and then they wouldn't be able to do anything. If someone is threatening you to vote a certain way and they're doing this to enough people that it makes a change.... we've got much bigger problems than vote tracking.