this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2025
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Mildly Interesting
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Barring a syndrome, there is direct cause between being born with sex chromosomes and hormone shifts during puberty.
A rare example would be Caster Semenya. I 100% think she should be allowed to compete as a woman, as she was born as one. Even if her hormones are raised due to mutation.
If the doctors had designated her sex "correctly" when she was born would you hold the same opinion?
Why is her situation any different than someone who medically matches her hormonal levels, irregardless of assigned sex at birth?
There is no confusion about her sex. She was born as a woman and she considers herself a woman (not that it matters for sports, only that she was born as one)
Obviously taking drugs to match would be incredibly wrong. Just like doping is wrong.
You are conflating sex and gender, she has 5α-reductase deficiency which exclusively effects individuals with an XY karyotype.
Either all women^1^, including Semenya, fall under that umbrella or none of them do. Pick one.
If your concern is about "unfair advantages gained via doping" then the majority of trans women competing are being much more fair because they are undergoing HRT to bring the "doping" back to within the typical woman baseline.
Unless your moral outrage is because you're drawing a distinction between naturally occuring and artificial doping?
^1 I should have to fucking say this, but based on the fact we're having this conversation: this inherently includes trans women.^
This is the issue at hand. How can you possibly justify reverse doping when none is allowed? This introduction of alteration that isn't and can't be available for everyone is inherently unfair. It also is troublesome in the opposite direction. What is then the legal limit for doping of a trans male? Can they take as much as they want since it's part of their condition?
That's unfortunately how genetics works.
I thought being assigned female at birth made someone inherently and irreversibly weaker and so they would be non-competitive in men's sports /s.
Seriously though that's a largely solved problem. While specifics will vary depending on the specific org this set of guidelines outlined by the World Anti-Doping Agency is a decent enough framework and directly answers that.
That's fair. Changing it by medication or doping isn't.
I gave it as an example for you to understand the position. Clearly it didn't work.
There is no example of a trans male winning against the best men in competition. Just the other way around. But then again we haven't tested how far people might go in their roiding.
Define your goalposts, what exactly is "winning against the best in competition"?
Chris Mosier seems like someone who consistently does win in those competitions.
If he doesn't count then who, specifically, does "the other way around"?
It's axiomatic. The best means the best. Objectively. Fastest, highest, longest, game won. You understand?
Participating in the Olympics, only to not even finish isn't exactly winning though.
I could find one victory in total, which was a smaller size meet for men over 40. Truly the best. Not bashing effort in any way, he likely puts in a lot of work. All athletes do.
So your goalpost is a world record? No trans, non-binary, etc. individual I can find has set a world record in any sport.
If we lower the goalpost to 'any trans, non-binary, etc. individual winning gold in the Olympics' again nobody meets that criteria^1^. Dropping it to simply medaling? Again nothing.
^1 Quinn the soccer player arguably does meet this criteria, but it's a team sport. Using that as your sole evidence of 'loads of examples of the opposite' seems extremely cherry picked doesn't it?^
Yeah? No shit they haven't, born men aren't allowed to compete against women. I recon there are thousands of athletes that could decide to transition to female and beat the world records for women.
They are though, just going through the last 2 Olympics the list of openly trans individuals: Laurel Hubbard, Chelsea Wolfe, Quinn, Ness Murby, Nikki Hiltz, Raven Saunders.
You can look these things up, stop being a willfully ignorant bigot.
Laurel Hubbard was an average to poor male athlete that couldn't qualify in mens competition that decided to change and won silver immediately.
Even if I don't think she actually did transition to win at sports, the result is the same.
Thank you for making my point for me.
She competed in the 2021 Olympics but did not finish. Same as Chris Mossier who you so casually dismissed as a counterexample.
She did win silver in the 2017 World Weightlifting Championships. You do notice how you moved the goalposts we previously established in order to get the answer you desired?
You are continuing to be willfully, and now maliciously, ignorant.