this post was submitted on 08 Apr 2025

219 points (97.0% liked)

Fedigrow

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To discuss how to grow and manage communities / magazines on Lemmy, Mbin, Piefed and Sublinks

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2 Instances are being used for coordinated vote manipulation, and should be defederated. chinese.lol lemmy.doesnotexist.club (hackertalks.com)

submitted 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) by jet@hackertalks.com to c/fedigrow@lemm.ee

54 comments fedilink hide all child comments

The instances being used are

lemmy.doesnotexist.club
chinese.lol

Here is an example of the coordinated downvoting https://hackertalks.com/post/8692093

Of course its a controversial user who got someone angry enough to automated downvoting @DonaldJMusk@lemmy.today

But you can see every post they make gets 53ish downvotes from these two instances, plus some organic ones after a few hours.

Current downvoting Accounts

bot-list

A individual user airing their personal biases and manipulating lemmy isn't good for the community, regardless of how you feel about their target. This is a really bad thing (tm)

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[–] MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net 32 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

This highlights one of the things that I saw as a benefit when I started on kbin: being able to see who the downvote fairies were. I know the discussion has been done to death on the Lemmy side, but as a user I found it interesting to be able to see this kind of info. For example, instead of just block/reporting the spammer, I could block their sock puppets that upvoted as well. (And did kbin.social have a lot of that towards the end. Oof.)

Thanks for digging into this.

[–] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 23 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Lemmy currently allows mods to see downvotes, so they can fight brigading on top of admins

[–] MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net 9 points 2 weeks ago

Visibility is a good thing.

[–] sneezycat@sopuli.xyz 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

You mean admins, right? I cannot see downvotes on the community I mod.

[–] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

Use https://tesseract.dubvee.org/

What it does look like (there were no downvotes here, but they would appear as well)

[–] rustyfish@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

That’s pretty neat to have as a mod. But I don’t think it should be readily available for any average Joe.

Sometimes people are looking for anything to get angry about, myself included. And I really don’t want to get into a slap fight with someone whose dick pic I downvoted.

[–] lena@gregtech.eu 11 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The data itself is public, clients just don't show it. Imo clients should add that capability, the lack of privacy is better than the illusion of privacy.

[–] rikudou@lemmings.world 5 points 1 week ago (2 children)

It's not exactly public, IIRC? Like, admins/mods have access, so it's not private by any means, but I wouldn't really call it public.

[–] lena@gregtech.eu 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/4967

Due to the way federation works, it is public. Anyone could spin up an instance and make a tool to make votes public.

[–] rikudou@lemmings.world 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That's what I meant by admins/mods, thus I still think my point is still valid: not private, but not exactly public.

[–] lena@gregtech.eu 2 points 1 week ago

I think it would be better to make it clear that people's votes can be seen by anyone with a little technical skill, better than hiding that fact.

[–] Ajen@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 week ago

Anyone can set up a server, make themselves an admin, and federate with other servers. That's what makes it decentralized.

[–] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 2 weeks ago

Indeed, which is why it's limited to mods

[–] DonaldJMusk@lemmy.today -2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

How do I use this for different instances? I'm thinking of starting an instance. Is tesseract good for any instance or just dubvee?

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 2 points 1 week ago

It can connect to any instance

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 11 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

There is some interesting area here, like a personalized vote score, based on others who vote similar to you, giving them more weight then people you never agree with.

net-net I think open votes make for better neighbors.

[–] OpenStars@discuss.online 9 points 2 weeks ago

PieFed has some interesting thoughts along these lines.

I actively expect to never see such a thing in Lemmy though.

[–] rhythmisaprancer@moist.catsweat.com 2 points 1 week ago

I never realized that was a kbin only thing. I just assumed my instance/mbin blocked that feature.