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More than 80% of the world’s reefs hit by bleaching after worst global event on record
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 23 Apr 2025
128 points (99.2% liked)
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Not convinced that this kind of catastrophism is helpful. Certainly not round here, where people are already concerned (indeed stressed) about the subject by definition.
The fisheries thesis (or at least your strong version of it) I have not heard in those terms (and I'm pretty informed). As you surely know, there are plenty of potentially catastrophic outcomes other than fisheries - freshwater depletion, topsoil loss, plus the climate tipping points you mentioned. But nothing is certain in "10-15 years". Talking in these apocalyptic terms is really a bit silly, not to mention counter-productive IMO. No surer way to tempt fate than to tell everyone that it's all hopeless and they should all just go home and call it a day.
I do agree with your underlying point that climate is just one among a bunch of serious environmental threats. This is something that lots of people seem to have trouble grasping. Especially Americans IMO. Perhaps because the US lifestyle is completely incompatible with, well, basically any environmental limit, so the temptation might be to focus on one specific challenge and treat it as a problem to be solved. After all, Americans are a problem-solving people, right? They'll just fix this one and get on with their lives. Etc. Anyway, I've gone offtopic so I'll stop.
That is your opinion, you don't like thinking about negative things and so you are projecting that onto me.
No, the way we have tempted fate is by pretending things are not anywhere near as serious as they are and then focused our energy on tone policing the people who were suffering already and trying to warn us.
I NEVER said to quit fighting, I said to keep fighting and I will always say that, you are projecting the conclusion that someone with my point of view has no reason to fight, whereas I share my view so that I may hopefully shock people into realizing there is no reason not to fight with everything they have right now. There is no rational reason to save beyond 15 years down the road, to put off spending time with friends and loved ones. We live in an existential time, I am sorry you can't handle that but other people can and that is why I share.
Let me ask you a question, if I told you I had a terminal illness and only had ~10 years to live, would you tell me to stop being negative about it?
You are the one hurting people by gaslighting them for feeling intense climate grief, you rob people of the fire to fight when you say to despair is useless. Despair is a necessary step into realizing you need to take radical action, there is no positive short cut to it, there is only self deception that provides the illusion of forestalling the discomfort from facing it head on and grappling with it.
To hope with a cynicism that will defend the status quo until the very end is useless.
Things are not ok, and I am sorry but no you obviously aren't an expert in keeping up with climate science and related topics if you think we don't face very real existential threats to the global biosphere and functioning of the human food system in the next decade and a half.
This is the only point I will challenge. I guarantee you that I know at least as much about this subject as you do. I choose to respond to it differently. That is all.
Ok, fair it wasn't productive to challenge your credentials and it hurt my point.
The genuine part that matters to my point is that there are and are going to be a lot more negative emotions around this, because this is about grief.
I get defensive because sometimes it feels like people want to exclude negativity as an axiom to a sober conversation about our future.
I hope I am wrong, my opinion is always evolving, but right now I think is a time to speak honestly about how negative things are shrugs.