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Just my Whatsapp abstinence alone is costing me dearly socially. Without Telegram it would be straight to the hermitage. Very few normies use even Signal, let alone all the weird and wonderful "even more private" alternatives whose names I never bother to try to remember.
This advice is completely disconnected from the reality of anyone who has, or wants to have, a social life.
I got my family, wife and almost all friends to install Signal. Yes, I'm not in a hundred group chats anymore and sometimes miss stuff but my quality of life didn't get worse from my phone not constantly dinging anymore.
I look at it a bit differently. If I'm not important enough to my friends and family for them to install a easy to set up app, then I guess I never was that important to them.
I left facebook in 2011, lost contact with most of my school friends, army buddies etc. I left Whatsapp around 2016, lost contact with most of what was left. In my signal there's 6 chats open. Two of them are my sisters, whom I rarely talk to. One of them is my weed dealer. The rest are friends, I guess, but even those chats haven't been active since January 6th (I just checked) lol.
But I know I'm a bit different, I'm a bitter, miserable and grumpy man who doesn't mind being alone. I know most of the people are not like that and would go mad without contact with other people. For me its more healthy to be away from these parasite apps and services than it is to keep up with everyone.
I look at it a bit differently. If I'm not important enough to my friends and family for them to install a easy to set up app, then I guess I never was that important to them
that was the line I ran with, got about 20% on board and that was good enough. Even my 82 yr old mother uses Signal to message me from her ipad
I agree with that stance but the harder part is for group conversations. There if you're alone asking to migrate it's much harder to convince the group to migrate, even if everyone individually is OK with using signal for 1-to-1 chats
I don't have experience about that. Every time I've been invited to a group, I've removed myself immediately lol
Uncanny. All of that is really close to my experience (I like to think I'm not bitter and miserable but I suspect you're not either - just introverted or on the spectrum).
If I’m not important enough to my friends and family for them to install a easy to set up app, then I guess I never was that important to them.
This is the standard argument and it's powerful. Problem is, it can easily be turned around: "if I'm not important enough for them to install this completely ubiquitous app that everybody is already using, then obviously they don't care much about me". Conundrum! The only way to "win" here is by playing the ethics card. But alas that argument is just not well understood by most people.
I like to think I’m not bitter and miserable but I suspect you’re not either - just introverted or on the spectrum
Perhaps I'm not bitter. I don't know what I am. Tired, frustrated to the point of being done with everything and everyone. I'm not sure what to call it, depression is a major part of it. Introverted, for sure. I'm a introvert even in Finnish standards lol.
The only way to “win” here is by playing the ethics card. But alas that argument is just not well understood by most people.
That's how I decided to drop Whatsapp. i explained to the people I felt I owed a explanation, that I'm not comfortable with the privacy issues and being a play button for big American corporations. They understood it, didn't care. Meh. Fuck them, I guess lol.
I’m a introvert even in Finnish standards lol.
"How can you tell if a Finn is an extrovert? While talking to you, he looks at your shoes and not his own." Boom! You've probably heard it already.
depression
I'd be depressed if I had to endure the darkness of a Finnish winter.
They understood it, didn’t care. Meh. Fuck them, I guess lol.
TBH in principle I'm ready to give up on the Whatsapp boycott, it's just so costly socially. I've lost out on a ton of connections at this point. Maybe nothing would have come of them but it's such a high price to pay for a principle. And after all I use Telegram so I'm hardly pure.
BUT there's a deal-breaker: WA demands physical access to a SIM, i.e. you can't sign up with another number or even continue to use it without the ongoing SIM permission. This is just so outrageous (no other apps do it), and anyway I often change SIMs because of travel. The only workaround is to sign up for a business account (yes seriously) with a landline number, but if you try any funny business (like using a virtual landline number) you will get banned - and indeed I got banned! What a nightmare this damn app is. And also the dumbest name ever.
I’d be depressed if I had to endure the darkness of a Finnish winter
Funnily enough, winter is my favorite time. I love going for winter hikes etc. Its so peaceful and quiet.
TBH in principle I’m ready to give up on the Whatsapp boycott, it’s just so costly socially
I just use good ol' SMS with the people who don't have Signal. Though thats like one SMS message per year or so..
Or you know, people can start to move? Always this ridiculous expectation, "i only move if everyone uses it". Like how is thay supposed to work?
No, not everyone needs to make a cold cut, even though it would be better. But you can start using e.g. Signal and maybe one or two of your friends would too. And slowly more and more people would migrate. It's a process, but if most people don't even bother then of course it won't go anywhere.
As I already mentioned, I already do not use Whatsapp. That is a massive sacrifice where I am. You may not be aware of this (I'm guessing American), but in western Europe almost everybody is now using Whatsapp for pretty much everything. Businesses are replacing the phone and email with it. The situation is even worse in Latin America.
If you meet a new social contact and you don't have Whatsapp, that's likely it, you will not be keeping in contact with that person. Typically they have Telegram installed but hardly use it (so the app gets killed and they won't be notified of your message). As for Signal and the rest, most people haven't even heard of them. I speak from experience. It's a disaster and I worry the people who populate this forum (i.e. Americans who still use SMS) are not familiar with how dire the situation now is elsewhere in the world.
As an Australian I had no idea how ubiquitous WhatsApp had become elsewhere before travelling. I downloaded it for the first time on a trip to Europe because I literally couldn’t contact certain providers otherwise and the only other time I’ve ever used it was when I was in India and was faced with the same dilemma. It was a real culture shock.
I, and everyone I’m linked in with here in Australia, only use WhatsApp to communicate with relatives overseas or don’t use it at all. We all just tend to use SMS or regular phone calls here.
We all just tend to use SMS or regular phone calls here.
???? I'm an Aussie, I haven't sent an SMS for well over a decade, aside from a Y when confirming medical appointments I guess :) , a few received SMS for 2FA or signing up to services. I only use Signal. Most seem to use Apple's bullshit though.
My gfs work is all organised via Whatsapp though.
That said WA and Tele and FB are ubiquitous in SE Asia, LINE App and Viber to a lesser extent.
I have a) ignored the fact you said about whatsapp because i was annoyed with the "inevitable" sentiment. sorry for that and fantastic step from you; And b) i have not used it in..i don't even know, 6-8 years? I was very hopefull more people make a switch during the last time news came up. But i am also in europe and well aware how stupid the situation is, unfortunately.
I am also aware how stupid many businesses are, but i am closer to the other end of the spectrum and just stubborn so i simply don't partake. And i will be complaining, but obviously without much reach in my echo chamber of people who switched anyway.
But what i mean is really that there can be change, slowly and gradually but it works. I my of my close family and most of my few friends to Signal and slowly i see this spreading to aquaintances. Like my bouldering group switched lately, which was a very nice surprise to me.
where i live even businesses and the government uses whatsapp for their services. it's inescapable.
Like a man who takes no risk is not a man.
Call a spade a spade. Admit the truth!
Those aren't businesses or governments cuz they don't secure their comms.
it's not about risk. is about literally functioning in society.
i always try to nudge people away from whatsapp, but for talking to most it's necessary.
unless you guys feel like ddosing facebook or something.
Whatsapp > Telegram tho, Telegram isn't encrypted by default which means someone can read your messages on the servers. This not being made clear and having to open a "secret chat" to make the user gullable is a big nono for me.
Also big tech wants you to think you are alone without them and you NEED them, i use Signal only these days, most of my friends have it.
They all have shitton of apps for every shit company which is ridiculous on its own, so what damage does one more app do them (is what i ask..)
The few ones still refusing i just call if i need smth.
Whatsapp > Telegram tho, Telegram isn’t encrypted by default
This argument I have never found convincing. For all its faults Telegram is open source. Nothing made by Meta is. When they say "it's encypted and we promise there's no backdoor", we are taking their word for it. I am not a cynical person but I can think of a thousand companies more trustworthy than Meta.
Whistleblower recently revealed that employees at meta could (and do) just look at anyone's chat threads. So they absolutely have a backdoor.
If I really had to rank big tech companies in terms of trustworthiness I would be really hard pressed to find one to rank below Meta.
Any VC firm funded by US govt.
Meta is a mere symptom of the forever war economy. They all follow the exact same patterns of surveillance of peeps who can't be bothered to secure their privacy comms and finance.
it's encrypted trust our centralized servers is tarded.
Show me the efff'ing source code or it doesn't exist and doesn't belong on any serious person's list.
What does IMs have to do with a social life? And what constitutes a social life in a hyper inflationary war economy?
If the folks can't remember to bookmark the IMs comparison sites then i can't be bothered to recall what a social life entails.
Some months ago I saw a table comparing features and privacy of various messengers, but I don't remember where it was and I couldn't find it again... did anyone else see it and can indicate where to find it?
Pay attention class. Ctrl+D makes bookmarks. Organize your bookmarks so you can find them later.
That's all for today class. Remember to bully former Windows users on your way out and have a nice day.
None of these so far—the one I saw had many more messengers and details, but it's in the same style.
I started saving a lot of things recently because I wanted to be able to consult them later and dont know where I saw them, for situations like this.
Obrigado/Gracias
I saw it too, sadly cant find it. Did it compare messangers from worst to best?
For secure messaging that isn't centralized and doesn't require a phone number, I'd suggest Delta Chat.
SimpleX Chat is good too.
Whatsapp is too complicated for Americans
They use even less secure messaging apps
TwoWayPenguin.gif
WhatsApp is owned by Meta. Fuck that shit.
So is FB Messenger, which is what most people in the US seem to use.
TL;DW?
Anyone? Thanks
WhatsApp bad. Telegram bad. Paranoia good.
I feel like that's common knowledge, no?
Maybe in a privacy community, but not universally.
Were quite literally in "c/privacy"
And not everyone viewing these posts is a member of the community. For instance, I saw it browsing All.
Good point
not to nonparanoid folks.
Reminded me of a basque song "El ojo te ve" from La Polla Records. "You'll be paranoid If you want privacy". Sad to see truth today in words spoken in 1994
Seems a good summary even if I didn't watch the vid. We've heard these talking points a million times by now.
But I'd say the problem is not that so much that it's paranoid as that it's unrealistic. A messenger is not a weather app. You can't just "change" it, you first need to ask everybody else in the world to change theirs too. Which obviously isn't gonna happen.