Programming

i mean, you'll be able to write things in that language, which i'd say is somewhat useful 🤔

It's kinda like asking "is it worth doing long hikes before training to do 5km runs?", you probably don't need to go on hikes in order to start running, but it's less intimidating and if you then realize you're just not into running then you're still left with a useful skill.

Is this bait? Zig and Go are very much serious, especially Zig.

Generally python/Javascript is good for learning the basics. To know how types work learn c#/java/go. To learn how the memory works Zig/C are good. To learn about what a fully defined behavior means in a program you learn Rust. To learn what actually happens on the processor you learn assembly.

Honestly, if you're hyped about Zig go for it, although I'd suggest "warming up" by doing a tic tac toe in python.

Yes 99% of programming is the higher level thought process behind making a program, and that skill transfers between programming languages. The specific syntax doesn’t matter that much.

Anything is better than nothing.

Go and Zig are serious languages. Go is especially established and has a big ecosystem and capabilities. You could stick with Go forever if you don't want to expand afterwards.

Starting 'simpler' is better because it gives you successes. It keeps you going.

My personal 2 bits: start with JavaScript.

You can run it in your browser console and get at least a little but of benefit from it no matter how far you go, scripting on web pages you use regularly.

Thanks to Node, you can reasonably build full stack systems with it. Fair warning, it's really best for I/O, so it's not really ideal for genuinely logically complex stuff.

You'll more quickly get to bigger tangible benefits connecting things that have already been built anyway.

Python as a starter otherwise, which is suitable for that genuinely logically complex stuff.

crazy to call zig, a low level systems language, an "easy" language

Python is one of the most-widely used languages in the world.

no. You must start with malboge

If Zig is easy than that means C is easy (as Zig is pretty much nicer written C) and if C is easy than, oh wait everything is written in C. I guess the only thing left to do is learn an unnecessary overcomplicated abstraction of C like java or C++.

As for the question, pick a task than pick a language, servers? Go seems to be replacing Java for the next generation, Games? Zig C# Odin C C++ Lua, Rewrites? Rust. Random small scripts? Python. Bare metal? C C++ Zig.

Also Zig Odin and Go are all C like languages if you learn one you learn about them all (with the exception of manual memory management for Go). My biased self recommend Zig as I think its the nicest, you almost certainly won't get a job in it but the skills will transfer directly to C or Go where you can get jobs.

I don’t know about zig, but go is absolutely serious.

Zig or go are not that unserious of languages. Zig is arguably quite hard due to being pretty low-level. Maybe think about what domain you want to do programming in.. Python might be a decent starting point tho (easy language, no memory management)

I found it easier to start with something considered medium difficulty, because "easy" languages abstract away a lot of problems of programming. So when certain problems arise, its hard to understand what is happening behind the scenes.

If you want to build something, python is great. If you wanna learn programming, it might be confusing.

I don't think most languages you'll encounter in the wild are too "easy".

Universities here start you off with Python in the first semester because it's easy for beginners to grasp. That doesn't mean it's not "serious" though, the whole AI/ML/Big Data ecosystem is ALL Python, largely because there are excellent data processing libraries for Python and stuff like PyTorch for offloading work to the GPU.

Just don't try to use Powerpoint for programming, it's possible but you'll go mad.

Zig and Go are serious. I think Python would be a language that isn't serious (despite it's widespread use in serious applications) but has a reputation for being easy. I don't know if that reputation is really deserved.

Anyway I would start with one of Python, Go or Typescript (via Deno). I would avoid Rust, Haskell, OCaml, C++ as your very first language, but they could be your second.

Whatever you do don't learn Python and stop there. That's the way to be a crap programmer. And if you do use Python learn to use type hints early on.

Where did you get the idea that Zig is an "easy" language?

It's...sort of not a question of easy vs hard. Why would anyone make a hard programming language?

It's more about picking a language that is suitable for what you want to do with it.

Exactly don't start with easy languages you should start with the best programming language HolyC, the divine language.

Logic is common to all programming languages. Everything else is syntax and knowing what functions or utilities you can capitalize on. No matter how complex things seem under the hood it's only one instruction at a time that is being processed. Speed and memory make it seem like multitasking. It's as simple as "If this, then that". Once you get the foundations of logic down, you're good to go. Everything else is experience and time takes care of that. Good luck and have fun. As far as confidence goes my mantra throughout life, especially when faced with complex situations is a derisive "How hard can this be?", while plodding forward.

C

Any language is good to start with. When you learn a language pick one that makes sense to you. The main thing you are learning is not the language it's how to change how you think about problems. From there the differences between languages are technical and any language can be conquered in time except JavaScript because fuck JavaScript.

A lot of basic principles remain the same from one language to another. Some have more features than other, some have slightly obtuse grammar, but as long as you stay in the same class of programming language, it can be a good learning experience. Learning from "simple" languages and building up was the way to go for a long while.

I'm not sure I'd call Zig or Go "easy" programming language though. Most languages you'll hear about these days are quite high level (even C++ and C got there over time). These days, I'm not sure where one would start from scratch. "scripting" languages are a good idea, since they are extremely easy to experiment with, and unless you start poking too much can't do any harm.

But basically, if you stay with imperative programming (most used languages are like this) 80-90% of the knowledge you'll get in one translate into another; there's no bad way to start.

I would suggest a different approach. Think about what you want to achieve with programming. Look at the languages which can be used to do this task. Choose one and try some tutorials, I recommend freecodecamp it helped me a lot.

I can't really comment on zig and go but I think they are pretty serious languages tbh.

Go is easy??

so one thing about programming languages is at the end of the day, they can all generally accomplish the same things. they are all turing complete and generally capable of expressing programs that any of the others can.

as others in this thread have said, many patterns you learn within one programming language will transfer to others. some personal context, i attended and then taught at a coding bootcamp for a year about a decade ago, saw over 300 students and have been doing software engineering since. it was full time and the students would learn ruby basics over 4 weeks and then would be able to do the same things in javascript in a few days. that said, those languages are pretty similar but i hope it makes the point.

so my main suggestion is to start with a general purpose, syntactically simple language. the less syntax and overhead in the language, the more you will be able to focus on the fundamentals of programming and less on jumping through the hoops of the language you're working with. stay away from typed languages for at least the first few months unless you really really only want to do low level stuff.

some languages i think you should consider: ruby, python, javascript. they are relatively similar for a beginner. python has more usage in data heavy scenarios due to it's extensive data libraries. ruby's whole mantra is being a joy to write. javascript is simple but that also means you don't get much help from it out of the box. consider it as a first/second language mainly if you are interested in websites.

Zig or Go are serious programming languages. Zig is actually the language I would least recommend for complete beginners because in my opinion it is one the most serious languages currently. What lead you to your examples Zig and Go and how do you determine what a 'serious' programming language is?

Nothing is easy when learning programming from scratch and by yourself ; just choose whatever you feel is cool (at beginner level, it does not make a big difference).

Avoid the compilation process by using interpreted language

Go is as serious as it gets. Go is also pretty simple and gives you great foundation and understanding.

Either go with Go (!) or with a lisp like racket, following the book https://htdp.org/ These are different approaches but will give you a huge headstart and better understanding of how to actually design a system instead of getting lost in code. I personally recommend the second approach to people who ask me.

Go seems like a good option to begin with; you can do a lot with it, and it's not that complicated but does expose you to concepts like pointers.

There are plenty of very "serious" systems written in Go (e.g. Kubernetes), it's not a toy language.

I get paid a whole lot to work solely in Deluge. which is the most painfully simple language ever. you want a join() built in? fuck you. sleep()? not allowed. you want a "for i in range()"? nope, they don't do that here.

simple languages are often the most used in production unless you're doing something highly specific that warrants a specific language.

Modern OOP is an antipattern.

I learned with python and switched to rust when that started to piss me off. It'll be awhile until you know enough about why you want a different language for a task. Until then, python and JavaScript are totally fine; you may never even need to leave those ecosystems depending on what you want to do.