this post was submitted on 30 Aug 2023
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[–] Disaster@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Nuclear energy is a terrible idea in both a physically (climate change) and socially destabilizing world.

Even Gen4 proliferation-resistant reactors still represent a lethal threat in the event of a release of fissionable materials into the local environment. Building a nuclear reactor without a cast-iron guarantee that there will be a supply of engineering staff, components, materials and clear strong regulation to keep it running safely is a surefire path to disaster.

Whilst the technology and physics behind it are well understood, we have shown time and again in a few short decades of utilizing this technology that we lack the responsibility in our administrative structures to properly manage the risks.

It would take just one full-on reactor meltdown or disaster to poison an entire continent. We have consistently demonstrated that we cannot responsibly assume that risk, which is why there is opposition to nuclear power.

If you want to avoid bad things from happening, do not deploy a dangerous technology and instead focus on what we can do. Renewables are more than capable of providing for our energy needs, and the big kicker here is that they can do so without putting the literal power "off" switch in the hands of the grid or plant operator.

[–] archonet@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

do not let "perfect" be the enemy of "good enough"

edit: quick addendum, I really cannot stress this enough, everyone who says nuclear is an imperfect solution and just kicks the can down the road -- yes, it does, it kicks it a couple thousand years away as opposed to within the next hundred years. We can use all that time to perfect solar and wind, but unless we get really lucky and get everyone on board with solar and wind right now, the next best thing we can hope for is more time.

[–] havokdj@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

I completely agree with everything you said except for ONE little thing:

You are grossly misrepresenting how far that can is kicked down, for the worse. It doesn't kick it down a couple thousand years, it kicks it down for if DOZENS of millennia assuming we stay at the current energy capacity. Even if we doubled or tripled it, it would still be dozens of millennia. First we could use the uranium, then when that is gone, we could use thorium and breed it with plutonium, which would last an incomprehensibly longer time than the uranium did. By that point, we could hopefully have figured out fusion and supplement that with renewable sources of energy.

The only issue that would stem from this would be having TOO much energy, which itself would create a new problem which is heat from electrical usage.

[–] flossdaily@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Good!

Anti-nuclear is like anti-GMO and anti-vax: pure ignorance, and fear of that which they don't understand.

Nuclear power is the ONLY form of clean energy that can be scaled up in time to save us from the worst of climate change.

We've had the cure for climate change all along, but fear that we'd do another Chernobyl has scared us away from it.

[–] originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

imagine how much farther ahead we would be in safety and efficiency if it was made priority 50 years ago.

we still have whole swathes of people who think that because its not perfect now, it cant be perfected ever.

[–] danielbln@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

So uh, turns out the energy companies are not exactly the most moral and rule abiding entities, and they love to pay off politicians and cut corners. How does one prevent that, as in the case of fission it has rather dire consequences?

[–] dojan@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

I mean it's not the companies operating the facilities we put our trust in, but the outside regulators whose job it is to ensure these facilities are safe and meet a certain standard. As well as the engineers and scientists that design these systems.

Nuclear power isn't 100% safe or risk-free, but it's hella effective and leaps and bounds better than fossil fuels. We can embrace nuclear, renewables and fossil free methods, or just continue burning the world.

[–] The_v@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The worst nuclear disaster has led to 1,000sq miles of land being unsafe for human inhabitants.

Using fossil fuels for power is destroying of the entire planet.

It's really not that complicated.

[–] abraxas@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Except that nuclear isn't the only, or even the cheapest, alternative to fossil fuels.

[–] untakenusername@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 months ago

If solar was used everywhere then it would also require a large investment in batteries to power stuff in the night There's pros and cons for everything and probably the best solution is to have several green energy sources, solar, wind, nuclear ect.

[–] umad_cause_ibad@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Don’t push nuclear power like it’s the only option though.

Where I live we entirely provide energy from hydro power plants and nuclear energy is banned. We use no fossil fuels. We have a 35 year plan for future growth and it doesn’t include any fossil fuels. Nuclear power is just one of the options and it has many hurdles to implement, maintain and decommission.

[–] Touching_Grass@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

It would be cool to see huge investments into battery storage. If we could create a battery that doesn't just leak energy from storing, we could generate power in one location and ship it out where it's needed. There could be remote energy production plants using geothermal or hydroelectric power that ship out these charged batteries to locations all over. It would let us better utilize resources instead of having to have cities anchored around these sources.

Or we could generate a ton of power all at once, store it and use it as needed rather having to have on demand energy production

Hell with better batteries even fossil fuels begin to be climate friendly since you could store the massive energy created and know you're using close to 100% of it.

[–] Astrealix@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Honestly, if you can, hydro is brilliant. Not many places can though — both because of geography and politics. Nuclear is better than a lot of the alternatives and shouldn't be discounted.

[–] Carighan@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Since you can apply that logic to everything, how can you ever build anything? Because all consequences are dire on a myopic scale, that is, if your partner dies because a single electrician cheaped out with the wiring in your building and got someone to sign off, "It's not as bad as a nuclear disaster" isn't exactly going to console them much.

At some point, you need to accept that making something illegal and trying to prosecute people has to be enough. For most situations. It's not perfect. Sure. But nothing ever is. And no solution to energy is ever going to be perfect, either.

[–] sederx@programming.dev 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

a wind mill going down and a nuclear plant blowing up have very different ramifications

[–] Carighan@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

Exactly, just like a windmill running and a nuclear power plant running have very different effects on the power grid. Hence why comparing them directly is often such a nonsense act.

[–] cloud@lazysoci.al 1 points 2 years ago

Anti-nuclear is like anti-GMO and anti-vax:

This sort of generalization is ignorance.

Nuclear power is the ONLY form of clean energy that can be scaled up in time to save us from the worst of climate change.

Wrong, nuclear power plants takes a lot of time to start and nothing can scale up to infinite spending. The solution and cure to climate change is to stop endless consumerism, if you don't do that society will keep demand yet another power plant to power up some useless shit

[–] DumbAceDragon@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Normally I'm not a "lesser of two evils" type, but nuclear is such an immensely lesser evil compared to coal and oil that it's insane people are still against it.

[–] MrMukagee@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 2 years ago

Especially when you start counting the number of people that have died either directly or indirectly from coal, oil and every fossil fuel.

If your extrapolate the data into the next hundred years ..... fossil fuels will have responsible for the deaths of billions.

Compared to nuclear energy ..... fossil fuels is killing us slowly and will kill us all if we don't stop using them.

[–] Relo@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Why go nuclear when renewable is so much cheaper, safer, future proof and less centralised?

Don't get me wrong. Nuclear is better than coal and gas but it will not safe our way of life.

Just like the electric car is here to preserve the car industry not the planet, nuclear energy is still here to preserve the big energy players, not our environment.

[–] kaffiene@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

I don't think we should shutter existing nuclear plants, but renewables are a better idea than new nuclear plants

[–] kttnpunk@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

As a bit of a "young climate activist" myself (certainly more of a jaded, realistic one) , nuclear is still a bad idea. We don't need a overabundance of electricity, we need more sustainable energy. The last thing we should be doing as environmentalists is giving governments and capitalists more resources to weaponize- ntm more opportunities to critically fuck up our planet. Yes, nuclear energy CAN be produced totally safely. However, from a logistics standpoint this depends on keeping a number of factors in check and one has to account for the materials involved. Storage of nuclear waste is already a problem on planet earth. The U.S has bunkers full of this sludge that will kill anyone who gets close- Not to mention how unethical industry practices are when it comes to mining on a world wide scale!

[–] qfe0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 years ago

For the love of everything, at least let's stop decommissioning serviceable nuclear plants.

[–] fne8w2ah@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I wonder what Greta's take on nuclear is.

[–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

The same as the experts she regularly refers to.

So in favour of nuclear as long as we are in the process of switching to renewables.

[–] MarkG_108@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Which means she opposes what Ia Anstoot is saying. Thunberg does not view nuclear as a renewable in and of itself, and thus, like Greenpeace, she opposes EU Commission’s decision to include nuclear power in its classification system for sustainable finance (link).

[–] 30isthenew29@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago

She’s probably going nuclear on Greenpeace.

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I live less than 2 miles from the last remaining coal power station in England.

I would much rather have nuclear instead of a chimney chucking god knows what into the air (and subsequently into me) for my entire life.

[–] Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 years ago

Fun fact, coal plants produce more radiation into their environment than nuclear plants

Modern reactor designs are so damn safe it's insane

[–] rusticus@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

This thread: nuclear is far better than fossil fuels

Everyone else: nuclear is not as good as renewables

This thread: nuclear is far better than fossil fuels

Crickets

[–] OriginalUsername@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yeah nah, no one is saying that. What people are saying is that neither is fundamentally better than the other, and usage should depend on geographic conditions, sociopolitical considerations, materials and experience. Moreover, while both are not receiving sufficient investment and development, Nuclear in particular receives unwarranted opposition and remains unable to advance due to a lack of funding and support

[–] rusticus@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago

We’ll have to disagree. Renewables can be scaled faster and cheaper and also secure the grid through decentralization.

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago

Don't get scared off by the N Word

Nuclear isn't the monster it's made out to be by oil and coal propagands.

[–] andrei_chiffa@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago

I find it fascinating how few people remember the time when Greenpeace was literally selling Russian gas.

[–] luckyhunter@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago

holy crap a voice of reason, hopefully they listen. And hopefully she's free to come scream at the climate activists here in the US too.

[–] books@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago

I always feel like I'm taking fucking crazy pill when we talk about nuclear energy.

Are we forgetting Chernoble, 3 mile island, or even more recenlty fukishima?

Sure, nuclear energy is great, cheap and reliable.. but IF something goes catastrophically wrong, like I dunno.. earth quakes, hurricanes, tornados, floods, etc (IE things we can't really plan for) you run the risk of not being able to fix it easily...

I guess I"m not a huge fan of making large swaths of the earth uninhabital if shit goes sideways.

[–] QWho@aussie.zone -1 points 2 years ago

Nuclear, the costliest energy source available with massive room for long build projects and years of service contracts to manage the waste materials and deconstruction costs with at least nine figures. Cui bono?

Wind and solar ia cheap and save, batteries work. Build time is manageable.

[–] eestileib@sh.itjust.works -1 points 2 years ago

100% right.

It doesn't make any sense without reprocessing though, have to do both. Fortunately France and Finland have active programs.

The US needs to both learn how to do reprocessing again and build more plants.