I have no idea who Hexbear is, but it's well documented how th IMF and World Bank work to endebt developing countries to the US's corporate rule and then steal all their resources... Are we... Not allowed to talk about that here?

Not in favour of this.

I chose Lemmy.world because I wanted an instance that would federate even with people I might disagree with. If it's illegal and abusive, sure. But to defederate on ideological grounds? I was planning a recurring donation but this makes me consider setting up my own instance.

They're welcome to whatever discussions they want to have on their instance. As long as they respect the rules of other instances when they're here, then everybody wins.

As for their point about dismantling western propaganda - if they have documented sources then let's have a conversation. It's not like there isn't western propaganda

I echo the dissatisfaction people have with this and won't be donating again. This is Lemmy.world not Lemmy.(we need a safe space from the communists)

The fact you were upset about Beehaw's defederation but then turn around and do this is massive hypocrisy.

This is you imposing your personal ideology on your users. The fact you lead with those 3 "concerning statements" tells us everything. You only like free speech when it aligns with your own beliefs.

Shame.

Personally, I'd rather just block the stuff I don't like rather than have lemmy.world trying to decide "who's worthy of federation".

Why is it wrong to be critical of western propaganda?

I'm not in favour of pre-emptive defederating. It feels like censorship doing so and that bothers me.

1. Their note to their users specifically says to keep their anti establishment opinions and trolling to their own communities and don't spread it further for fear of defederation. It hardly sounds threatening to us.

2. Defederating can happen at any point, and I think would be better kept as a reactive response and last resort rather than proactive.

3. The more our large instances start fracturing and closing off from one another the less useful Lemmy will become. You're hardly blocking out an idealogy, if hexbear users wanted in they could just sign up and that would make it harder to find them. At least having them federated makes it easy to filter out @hexbear if we wanted.

4. Practicing tolerance goes both ways. Calling communities 'them' vs 'us' and judging a group based on the noise of the few doesn't seem like the right approach. If hexbear became a problem and moderators complained of hate speech and conflict then absolutely we use the tools we have to keep things functioning, but filtering out groups because we don't like 'their' belief systems will make us judgemental and biased as a result. This is a platform to promote discussion not an echo chamber to gather like minded opinions and bounce them off each other in perpetuity.

What a disappointingly reactionary approach to federation.

Right, so because a community has different views than the leftists you all think it's your place to "protect" users preemptively without discussion or reason, basically fucking worse than Reddit?

You'd better think long and hard on that.

Being in favor or support of the status quo is also pushing an ideology.

Sorry, but talking against NATO means violating lemmy.world rules? What the hell, I’m out of here.

Disappointing as fuck. You're defedarating based on ideological differences and a guess that they won't engage in good faith? And you're reaching that paltry conclusion after cherry picking posts?

Not to mention the posts you've shared aren't bad at all? They're literally asking their users to engage properly in a civil manner.

Big yikes man.

What the fuck?

I was assured by this server that it has no problem with socialists. This is worse than I expected it to be, I expected a half-hearted attempt to justify this action through means other than "they're socialists and hold socialist views".

To the three points here:

1. "Western propaganda" - Is capitalist propaganda. Of course socialists oppose it, we oppose capitalism.

2. "Nato" - An anti-nato position is held by literally every single socialist organisation in Europe. You will not find a socialist org with a pro-nato position. Ffs just look at DiEM25's position on this, it's probably the most well known cross-nation alliance of socialist groups and parties in europe including people like Yanis Varoufakis, Jeremy Corbyn and Zizek to name a few but that really doesn't do the size of the DiEM organising alliance justice. Even Noam Chomsky is anti-nato ffs. What the fuck are you doing acting like this is a fringe position not held by a huge number of people over here in Europe and at the forefront of leftist politics on the continent? Taking the position "you're not allowed to be anti-nato" is blatant american imperialism.

3. "It is in the Left’s interest for these organizations to be demolished." - Duh? What the fuck do the liberals running this instance think socialists believe exactly? When Marx calls for revolution do you think that we mean to continue the organisations that existed prior? No, we seek to abolish them and create new socialist organisations that serve the new socialist state we seek to create.

Absolutely mindblowing that this instance ever pretended it was going to play nicely with socialists. I'm disgusted.

Every single take above is also the take you will get from every single socialist community over on reddit. The anarchist communities will also even have an anti-nato position. Like jesus christ. I expected this post to be bad but I didn't expect it to be "Yeah fuck socialists, oh and fuck what anarchists believe too".

I'm flabbergasted that @ruud@lemmy.world just completely lied about not intending to block based on ideology, and it's extremely telling that Hexbear gets a pre-emptive defederation for this shit while literal actual nazis were a chore to get defederated.

last resort

preemptive

??

I have lurked here for a long time, but I just don't understand the logic here. I read the statement that was linked here, and it just seemed like they were saying that they should be respectful and follow our rules? ... Isn't dismantling propaganda... through "informed rhetoric" a good thing? Why are NATO, the IMF or World Bank automatically good? ... Aren't we just creating a bubble by preemptively blocking a large lemmy instance just because we don't like their political speech? As far as I can tell they aren't promoting racism or bigotry. Has lemmy.world preemptively banned nazi or right-wing instances?

L.

And that's why I'm glad my main accounts are not on world, which has just been a different flavored, smaller Reddit since its inception.

You guys really just want people who think the same way as you on your instance. You should clearly state that instead of letting people waste their time here.

This is too quick of a movement towards defederation. Except in the most extreme of circumstances, it should be up to individual users whether they want to engage with other communities, and users can always block communities they find objectionable. It is not in the best interest of users to treat them as being incapable of making their own reasoned decisions about this kind of thing.

Fortunately, thanks to the wonders of the fediverse, I can just make a new account on a different instance and start engaging with Lemmy that way. Anyone have any recommendations on alternatives to lemmy.world?

Gotta say, pre-emptive defederation seems like a bit of an over reaction. There's plenty of leftists in other instances, not just hexbear and lemmygrad. Hell, I'm an anarchist that regularly comments on political/social threads in this instance, it doesn't seem to be an issue. Lemmy in general is pretty obviously far left leaning. I don't see the harm in federating with hexbear, unless they show themselves to be actively harassing or trolling. But you'd have to federate first to find out if they will

Good. I commented earlier about how horrible hexbear was. I signed up for hexbear, hoping to meet leftists, but these are not leftists. They just parrot Chinese/Russian propaganda. They have no original takes, no critical thinking. Call me whatever, but, I'm pro NATO. I don't give a shit about what bullshit propaganda you show me from a totalitarian regime. If the U.S. is bad, then the CCP is pure evil.