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There's many reasons not to get an iPhone, but privacy worries, in contrast to Android, is not one of them.
Rather than take an all or nothing attitude on the matter, I certainly think your friend would be better off trying make smart choices with his data whenever possible. Ultimately though, it's something that he has to be motivated to do himself. Perhaps informing him of potential privacy risks would be helpful in that regard.
With the exception to GrapheneOS, compared to stock Android and Apple its much more secure and private since it removes everything connected to Google on it.
Then by using Free/Libre Open Source Software apps on F-Droid, as the replacement for Google Play, you can effectively eliminate trackers from your device using apps like Exodus that provides detailed breakdowns on app trackers and permissions.
As well as TrackerControl where you are given granular control over trackers on apps and even on websites you visit. It blocks analytic, fingerprinting, advertising, and other uncategorized trackers.
Then using Privacy Browser you can browse the web using TOR further enhancing your privacy. Whilst having built in tracker, cookie, javascript, and DOM storage controls.
Communicate through Molly (hardened version of Signal only available on android) or Threema and you can keep your communications secure and private.
Couple that with using a VPN like Mullvad or Proton and you can be very private on Android, that of which you cannot achieve on iOS where Apple has built in telemetry harvesting.
So I would say that compared to Apple, Android CAN be far more private and secure, I personally don't trust that Apple users are private at all considering Apple harvests telemetry and most users use iCloud which, whilst having Advanced Data Protection for most users, they literally took this away from UK residents more recently effectively exposing all of their content.
Apple disabled the feature in the UK because the alternative, per the British government, was to add a backdoor to it.
That doesn't change the fact that it's insecure and will likely become even more insecure as more governments demand more of the same in the name of "protecting the children".
Regardless if Apple's actions were better than the alternative, devices devoid of such vulnerabilities such as degoogled phones are inherently more secure and private.
Privacy and security isn't an all-or-nothing matter though. While a Pixel running GrapheneOS would indeed be more secure privacy-wise than an iPhone, not only would one have to be willing to do without a digital wallet, among other features that unfortunately have telemetry injected into them, but would still depend on the user not installing any of the common apps that would harvest data, even on a de-Googled phone.
How does getting an iPhone not worry someone about privacy? Do you believe that Apple doesn't collect as much data as Google?
Assuming for arguments sake that they do, which corporation do you think should get a better grade when privacy is the concern?
Apple, which has gone to court time and again to protect the privacy and security of their product, and leaked that a western government ordered them to backdoor their product when they were ordered not to reveal that, or Google, an advertising giant that uses every tool that having one of the largest mobile OSes on the planet gives them to not only invade that privacy, but to sell it to everyone with money, and give access away to the US government before they even demand it?
2 is almost as bad as the all or nothing approach. I argue that while Apple is not trustworthy, they are not incentivized to collect every piece of information about you that they can. Conversely, android is an operating system created by an advertising company specifically to ensure an ongoing corner on their market. Asking the average person to use a DeGoogled OS is akin to telling them to switch to OpenBSD on their desktop.
Completely disagree. You can't use iPhones with anything but iOS. And you can't install any apps Apple hasn't put their fucking rubber stamp and collected taxes on. For that reason, it is not and never will be viable. Not to mention being overpriced and disposable.
Android may be created by an advertising company but they also give you the ability to run whatever OS you want and strip it of Google's proprietary software completely. These days you can install OS like Graphene by simply plugging in your phone and clicking buttons in your browser.
Graphene doesn’t completely strip Google software though, it sandboxes it. You still gotta use the play store to install most apps for example.
I mean the entire thing is "Google software" so I'm not sure what you mean. It strips it of everything that calls Google's servers. It has optional sandboxed Google Play services.
You don't need the Google Play Store, you can install all of those apps with Aurora Store.
I think the point is you’re exaggerating how easy it is for the average person to install and use something like Graphene - people are arguing it’s less that Google allows it and more that white hats have forced it and I don’t think that’s an unfair statement. Like - I’m techy, own a phone running Graphene, and will have to look into the Aurora store - hadn’t heard of it before this!
Apple seems to be pretty privacy forward at the moment and it’s true that they sell hardware more so than software, and WAY moreso than user data. For people who can’t figure out something like Graphene, Apple is certainly a better choice than Googled Android. And I think that’s valuable to be able to tell people in this day and age even if Graphene would be best overall
I think the point is you’re exaggerating how easy it is for the average person to install and use something like Graphene
I'm not. It really is that easy.
But the fact that it's easy isn't the point. The point is that you have that choice. That is not a choice you're allowed with Apple.
Apple is certainly a better choice than Googled Android. And I think that’s valuable to be able to tell people
I did tell them that, in the parent comment of this thread.
As a GrapheneOS user, and someone who hates apple and would rather not have a phone than bend to apple, and while i agree with most of what you said, i would not expect the majority of the users to be able to install graphene. I don't personally know anyone i would expect to be able to do by themselves. It's easy for you. It wasn't super easy for me, it would be difficult for most people.
the fact that it's easy isn't the point. The point is that you have that choice.
I agree. It's just that you said it's easy.
Maybe you were referring to unlocking the phone, which is really easy on stock android if you know how.
The day we don't have the choice anymore is the day i stop using android. Or smart phones at all if the alternative is apple.
Well. Agree to disagree. You literally just plug it in and push buttons in the browser. It's that simple.
Ah, I didn't do it that way... I think. I can't remember. I certainly remember not wanting to because I don't trust that way. Also I use firefox and I doubted it would work. I don't know.
Ah, I didn't do it that way... I think.
Okay, but you can.
Also I use firefox and I doubted it would work.
It doesn't, but you can't use Chrome (or any other Chromium browser) for 5 minutes?
Although i use android i really, really don't want Google stuff on my pc. I use android because it's the only viable choice on mobile. But on pc I'll avoid chromium as much a i can. And having installed many roms the hard way before i saw no reason to make an exception.
Plus i don't like the browser doing something like that where i don't know what it's doing. If it was on firefox maybe i would trust it more, but even then...
i don't like the browser doing something like that where i don't know what it's doing.
Do you know what Firefox is doing? Do you know what GrapheneOS is doing? At some point you have to either audit the code yourself or trust it.
Seems a bit paranoid to be unwilling to have any Chromium fork on your PC for 15 minutes but you do you.
Android may be created by an advertising company but they also give you the ability to run whatever OS you want and strip it of Google’s proprietary software completely. These days you can install OS like Graphene by simply plugging in your phone and clicking buttons in your browser.
That's like saying since computers come with Windows pre-installed, Microsoft gave you the ability to install Linux. Computers are agnostic to what runs on them, they're inherently neutral unless made on the deeper level to prohibit side loading. Like a lot of Androids and all iPhones do.
Microsoft gave you the ability to install Linux
They don't give you the ability but they also don't actively impede you from installing something else. If computers were agnostic then you could install whatever you wanted on an iPhone but you can't because Apple locks them down.
90%+ apps require Google play services, which basically allows them to know every app you use, and potentially more.
There’s also a surge in apps implementing integrity checks, which makes you unable to run certain apps entirely with a custom ROM
Google has the exact same policy of getting a large cut of each payment you make…
No they don't. More like 5%. What % of Apple apps require Apple services?
https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/112622
15% for the first $1M (USD) revenue earned by the developer each year 30% for earnings in excess of $1M (USD) revenue earned by the developer each year
Apple takes 30%
Android may be created by an advertising company but they also give you the ability to run whatever OS you want and strip it of Google’s proprietary software completely. These days you can install OS like Graphene by simply plugging in your phone and clicking buttons in your browser.
This is patently untrue, and a total misrepresentation of the facts. You can install other OSes on a rather small list of Android phones. Furthermore, while the user might just be clicking a few buttons, behind the scenes those buttons put into play a rather complex series of actions that break the protections put into place by Google and phone manufacturers to stop you from doing exactly that.
Saying that Google gives you the ability to install other OSes is like saying Sony gives you the ability to install other OSes on the Playstation. It isn't true, Google never gave you that ability, the technical wizardry of white hat hackers did.
This is patently untrue, and a total misrepresentation of the facts.
LOL what? No it isn't.
You can install other OSes on a rather small list of Android phones.
How many iPhones can you install another OS on? That's nothing to do with Android anyway, you'd have to talk to the OEMs and carriers about that, Google lets you do it on their phones.
while the user might just be clicking a few buttons, behind the scenes those buttons put into play a rather complex series of actions that break the protections put into place by Google and phone manufacturers to stop you from doing exactly that.
No, it doesn't. You don't know what you're talking about.
Saying that Google gives you the ability to install other OSes is like saying Sony gives you the ability to install other OSes on the Playstation.
No, it's not. There's a toggle that Google put in the stock settings specifically for that purpose.
No, it doesn’t. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Kid, you've no fucking idea what I know, so stop with this adolescent shit. Your whole post is nothing more than you saying "nuh uh" to everything I wrote. If you're going to argue about stuff, at least take the time to actually be fucking informed about what you're talking about. I've been jailbreaking iPhones and taking apart Android since before you were old enough to even know what XDA is.
Well, take a look at LineageOS and the associated microg edition. They work on dozens of devices. I've been flashing ROM's since the first Android phone and I'm still using my Pixel 2XL, degoogled. I still have my Moto X 2013 {with custim, now unusable ROM} because it is like a river rock. It feels great to hold.
Google phones have always been unlockable - primarily for the benefit of developers.
Calyx also offers a degoogled Android, focused on privacy like Graphene.
If one wants a phone and own it, Google is the only sure way right now.
Google is the only sure way right now.
You heard it right here on Privacy Guides, ladies and gents!
Well, what unlockable options are there? I certainly accept that I might not be keyed into everything. Fairphone is the only one i recall.
Please, don't just snark. Enlighten me.
I would argue that, out of the two smartphone OSes available, iOS is the better choice for most people. They’ve done far more than Google at making sure nobody (even them), can access your data without your permission by putting encryption into a lot of their services.
In contrast, Google wants, and gets, access to everything about your life. And they’re more than willing to share that data with the government, or anyone that will pay them. And while the best option would be deGoogled Android, that’s something that most people aren’t going to be willing to use, even if they’re wising up to the need to take privacy seriously.
Privacy isn’t an all-or-nothing. Usually it’s better for each person to consider if they really need fully secure, or if a iPhone that does far more than the bare minimum at protecting their privacy is enough for them