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Just curious, why?

Are we expecting the original to get deleted?

In democracies, laws exist to grant people freedom from the power of the state, not to grant the state freedom from the power of the people. Any laws that grant cops protection from the people are laws of a tyranny. We get only the protections of the state that our rights make possible and no more. Trading freedom for security gets us neither.

Correction: In democracies, laws exist to grant power to the state, not to grant people freedom from the state. For example, I'm guessing that in your nearest democracy, there's probably not a law granting you the freedom to stand still for more than a minute or lie down for more than a minute. The people's freedom is a default.

Now, perhaps what you were thinking of was that some laws have exceptions (that might be phrased as affirmative defenses). But those aren't granting freedom to the people, they are restricting law enforcement. It's like a "tax refund" — the government isn't giving you their money, it's returning your own money.

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Yep. The Germans coined a nice term, critically: Vorauseilender Gehorsam - pre-emptive obedience. Don't do it.

Criminals are not stupid and generally have no political leanings. This is already happening.

They'd be caught out too quickly.

"Hey, wait a second! Yeah, you're holding me at gunpoint but you're asking me to put the money in the bag? But real ICE would have just kidnapped me!"

How long? Negative three months, apparently: https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/04/us/ice-impersonators-on-the-rise-arrests-made-as-authorities-issue-national-warning/index.html

And then how long until ICE agents start showing up with holes on the ground because property owners “thought” they were real street thugs trying to rob them? Is there even a way to tell the difference? ~wink wink~

Should happen more often, this aversion to civil violence is a bit like a game of "I drop my weapon, you drop yours" between governments and people, except governments never fulfill their part.

Like Russian opposition trying to do "everything by the law" until realizing the other side never was, it was just silent enough in killing and randomly vanishing people and pretending its just dumb thieves. The same is happening in the EU right now, they just don't know it yet.

I still think about this scene a lot because I've been there sheen relatively normal people casually talked about going to cities and shooting "democrats“ while also talking about the guns they were currently buying. I should have turned them in.

He didn't ever say that, actually. It was likely first said by an activist in New Zealand https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jefferson-injustice-resistance-quote/

Funnily enough the "second amendment" crowd has been completely silent about all this shit. But people really have to use those stand your ground laws.

I do wonder how all the "violence is never the answer" folks will go if it comes to that. I think a lot of them would side with ICE, sadly.

Personally, I won't be upset if a would-be nazi meets an abrupt end to their career.

Depressingly high.

But also…depressingly low. The fact that they couldve been actual govt officials behaving this way is…worse?

That's the problem when they never or rarely properly identify themselves. You can never truly know if they are to be believed.

They more than likely were with ICE. The agency has massively and rapidly expanded its enforcement personnel, and has done so in a haphazard way that has (deliberately) not given them an opportunity to properly train personnel up on procedures and rules and stuff. Nobody who wants to do good in the world is going to work for ICE right now. So, they've basically just done a presto gestapo, and a lot of times these guys really are just out there doing the sloppiest, shittiest, and most bully-like law enforcement you could possibly conceive of. I know where I'm posting this, I know what we all generally think of cops here, the current state of ice is about ten rungs down from that. We're talking real amateur hour shit, and they'll get away with it if people let them.

The good news is that apparently none of these fucking jokers seem to know or care how to cross t's and dot i's. You absolutely can send them packing, just like these folks did, and if they don't leave, then call your local sheriff's office or police dept. This is really dependent on your area, metro PD tend to be stocked full of major league assholes, but my local PD is actually pretty chill and has a good working relationship with the community; in my experience, sheriff's deputies tend to be people who got into law enforcement because they're true believers in the ideals of law enforcement (protecting life and property, accountability, etc) and constitutional justice, not because they want to flex on minorities. YMMV.

But if you think you can trust one of your local law enforcement agencies, absolutely call up 911 and tell them that you've got some people here that are trespassing (they've been told to leave and aren't), seem to be impersonating law enforcement (since they won't provide proof of ID), and you're worried that they're trying to kidnap someone, that you think these people are an imminent threat to your life or someone else's. That'll generally get the cops out there in a hurry, and they will likely be not very happy at all that ICE is out here putting on a fucking circus. That, or the agents will hear you and fucking split so that they don't get clowned on by local law enforcement. There have been plenty of instances of federal agents getting arrested while fucking around; mind you, they're almost never charged, but nobody walks away from that particularly happy.