Ask Lemmy

Short answer yes with an if. The long answer is no with a but.

I'd say it's racist if someone is complaining about illegal immigrants alongside a general contempt of 'foreigners' and not paying attention to the details of why it's illegal for them to migrate the way they did and what options are available for legal migration.

It's not racist to be opposed to those who are in violation of the law, as that is not a racial or ethnic classification. But it is important to be inquisitive as to why the law is the way that it is, and be willing to consider the possibility that just because something is against the law does not mean that it should be. Law has long been used as a tool of systemic oppression and racism, as well as many other horrific abuses inflicted on people.

yes. the ones complaining about "immigrants" at all are the ones who made their lives shit in the first place.

let them in and fucking take care of them.

I wouldn't say it's racist to oppose illegal immigration, but it makes me suspect you might be and also makes me think you have very little empathy.

Why do you oppose them?

• The crime they don't bring?
• Economic losses they don't cause to citizen workers?
• Economic gains to domestic businesses?
• The contributions to social security & medicare they don't get back?
• Because they're not white?
• Because outsiders are convenient scapegoats for politicians to blame & flex power?

It's important to pin down clear, substantiated reasons.

From The Business of Migrant Detention covering the history of anti-immigration policies & its disparate treatment of white & brown immigrants

ARABLOUEI: OK. If federal government's spending all this money to detain and then deport people and a lot of times they're coming back in the country, and it's not actually achieving anything economically in terms of supporting American workers and it's actually hurting American companies, why? Like, why are they doing this if there's no material benefit to the economy or to protecting workers?

NOFIL: To me, it is a core question of sort of who is an American. Immigration detention's roots are in this moment that is so blatantly racist, that sort of - you know, the Chinese Exclusion Act pulls no punches about what it is doing. It is targeted to a specific group of people. But that is where we get the legal precedents that undergird this entire system today. It is a system that has only really ever, to my opinion, receded. Immigration detention is only really ever rolled back when it is seen as threatening whiteness. And it is a system that has, you know, continually expanded and gained public support by, you know, targeting racialized people, by targeting people who Americans are encouraged to imagine as maybe kind of criminal anyway, right? It is doing political work, and it is doing work that I think is, like, really revealing about how the nation sees itself.

Not really, but the racist part is opposing measures making it achievable and even simple to do so legally. Then all the terrible treatment along the way.

I feel like "illegal" immigration as a concept is inherently racist and being upset and anyone for not coming over the "right" way is also racist.

Not intrinsically, but pretty commonly it is driven by bigotry over culture, religion or skin colour.

You know all the people up in arms over the wave of Ukrainian refugees? Oh wait, there's nothing of the sort? Well, there you go.

It's not racist to take issur with illegal immigration.

It's just not right to oppose the immigrants as people, or say that their situation is the result of some moral failing. These people make the best decisions for themselves and their families.

It becomes racist when you start attributing characteristics or behaviors to their race as fundamental attributes.

No human is illegal

Considering the high proportion of the population with ancestors who were illegal immigrants, there's also a question of what you consider as acceptable.

If illegal immigrants in the US are all white Christian beautiful women filling jobs that locals don't want to do in healthcare, is it different than Pedro from Honduras who works in construction but looks like he could be a drug mule.

There could be many reasons to be opposed to it, not necessarily racist ones.

You can support the rule of law - that's not racist. You may want to support legal immigration, while closing illegal ways that commonly lead to abuse of migrants - this is straight up progressive. You may consider illegal immigrants more dangerous as they didn't go through screening procedures - that's up for debate, but not necessarily racist, etc. And generally, if you consider that same rules should apply to everyone, this is not racist.

However, it's worth considering the laws of your area and the way they can affect legal migration. Going against illegal immigration and at the same time voting to complicate legal one, especially in relation to certain nationals, likely signals of racism (or, rather, ultranationalism). It is one thing to want to make the process transparent and legal and the other - to build more barriers.

Every time I meet someone who opposes illegal immigration but claims to support legal immigration I ask one question. If the law changed so that all immigration was legal, you'd be fine with it, right?

Nobody so far has been fine with it. I conclude that the question of legality is a dodge for people who are embarrassed about their actual motives.

It really depends on why you oppose them. There is no real answer to that question.

No, race doesn't have anything to do with it.

If you oppose illegal immigration, though, you should ask yourself why.

If it's solely that you don't want people coming over to your nation illegally, then it's very likely that they aren't able to because of how complicated and exclusive your nation's immigration system is.

The term is a little racist. It is like defining someone as an excon, or ex convict, rather than someone who has spent time in prison. Or as disabled rather than a person with a disability. You define people as a simple thing rather than as a whole person with a feature. It flattens people into less than they are and makes them less than human.

So opposing people who flaunt the rules is a separate question to opposing illegal immigrants. You don't dismiss their humanity, you don't discard them, you say "You breeched the rules and here are the consequences."

The second layer is whether you believe in the rules. Do you believe people from other countries are fundamentally different to you? Are they less because of where they come from? If so, yes, racist. If not, then probably not.

No, but it is racist to assume that a person is an illegal immigrant based solely on their race.

Likewise, i think there is a deeper connection being made, that theres an assumption that an illegal immigrant is a bad person, and i also do not think that is a valid assumption.

To know if a person is a bad person, you have to know the person.

no.

however, it is racist to oppose them because they're not your race.

I am yet to hear a justification for opposing illegal immigration that doesn't tie back into racism or racial prejudice, let alone a justification that actually makes sense if you take it apart.

Someone prove me wrong, and I'll change my mind.

Is your opposition to ilegal immigration based on race or skin color?

If the answer is yes then, yes, you are racist. If the answer is no, then no, you are not racist.

It's racist to use immigration law to maintain a racial underclass. For instance, many essential agricultural workers in the US do not have access to the courts or law enforcement to protect their rights. If a citizen assaults one of these workers, the worker cannot safely report the assault to law enforcement without being punished for doing so.

No,

because it doesn't even fit the definition of racism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

Illegal immigrants are of absolutely all sorts, so there is no single human trait that is uniquely only found in illegal migrants. Also, people don't oppose illegal migrants, they oppose illegal migration as a general thing. Illegal migrants are not the problem, they are simply the cause, and people hate the problems that arise in a society after to much illegal migration.

People need to stop calling everyone they disagree with racists, its so watered down that it completely lost any meaning and weight behind it. Didn't get up to a granny on the bus? Racist. Driving a white car? Racist. Using an iPhone? Racist.

There is a version of illegal migration that I would support and truly leave an open door for everyone: You must adopt the culture, you must learn the language, you must find a job, you won't get any welfare or housing and you can't ask for anything in our society to be "like it was at your home". And voila! Everyone welcome.

Usually, yes
Because usually the reason they have to be illegal is racist, and the person complaining about illegal immigration is fine with it.

Maybe. Depends. It's complicated.

No, not on it's own, but it's rarely on its own. In the US opposition to illegal immigrants and racism tracks nearly one to one.

One could imagine a country where illegal immigration itself was a distinct problem, where the society was balanced in such a way that legal immigration was at an optimal rate and additional people coming into the country had downsides that outstripped the positives, when though, for example, the immigrants were of the same culture/class/standing as the existing citizens.

The US, on the other hand, is nowhere near an optimal legal immigration rate, even though we benefit pretty significantly from both legal and illegal immigration. Illegal immigrants, for example, contribute significantly to the economy while not drawing 'as many' benefits away. Overwhelmingly the actual arguments against illegal immigration are grounded in cultural differences and language and, to put it simply, the desire for one class to want a reason to consider themselves better than another class by an easily recognizable yardstick.

Nothing makes you more racist than having a legal alibi to hide your racism.

This question reeks of asking if keeping slaves when they were "legal" racist? If it's legal, what's the big deal?

In the US and many other countries, immigration violations are not crimes. Therefore, those immigrants are not illegal. It is actually a civil infraction, like a parking ticket... So, your question reveals hidden xenophobic bias. That alone is immoral. Is it racist in itself? Probably. It is very difficult to be xenophobic without also being racist.

I feel like if you're asking then you're searching for validation. A sort of way to not feel guilty about being racist. Tell me, what bothers you most about immigrants? This country wouldn't exist if it weren't for immigrants

Yes.

Just ask yourself why there is even a barrier to entry in the first place. Prejudices and paranoia.