▲ 104 ▼ XKCD 927 revisited (europe.pub) submitted 1 week ago by cypherpunks@lemmy.ml to c/programmerhumor@lemmy.ml 19 comments fedilink hide all child comments original XKCD#927: https://xkcd.com/927/ https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/927:_Standards cross-posted from: https://programming.dev/post/58289586
[–] phoeniqz@lemmy.4d2.org 10 points 1 week ago (5 children) Why do some people dislike Matrix so much? permalink fedilink source hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] evin@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 days ago (2 children) speaking as a former matrix user and fan, I hate it because: the protocol is absurdly complex and bloated despite the promises of an open standard making interoperable clients possible, Element is the only client that supports most of the features in my experience, and it has constant bugs. It's also slow and has some really annoying interface design issues, like not being able to adjust the width of the sidebar to where I want it (to be fair, many other messengers, like Signal, also have this problem) I had several experiences inviting someone to become a new Matrix user and having to immediately tell them that I couldn't decrypt their messages and the first 3 things we tried to resolve it didn't work. Made me feel like an ass for inviting them It has many security flaws (for example, all sorts of metadata and even some kinds of message content, like emoji reactions, are unencrypted) The whole "verify your device" nag thing is incredibly annoying and when I try to actually do it, it has almost never worked for me. Overall, I view it much like I do XMPP. it takes basically the same approach to everything and has all of the same downsides, except E2EE is easier to get working I guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] phoeniqz@lemmy.4d2.org 1 point 2 days ago (1 child) I don't know when you used matrix, but I have always avoided Element for the reasons you mentioned and so far. I think Matrix can only be an enjoyable experience without element permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] evin@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 days ago The end of my usage was about one year ago. I'd tried several other clients in the years prior (Fractal, Nheko, Mirage, and some others I forgot the names of) but all of them had their own major issues, severe enough to eventually drive me back to Element It's certainly possible the ecosystem has matured somewhat since then, but I would be skeptical because I think the root of the problem was not that these projects were too young, but that the protocol was too complex for anyone to implement properly, much like the web permalink fedilink source parent [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 week ago* I hate it because it was developed by Israeli spyware company Amdocs in Israel. Then it moved to the UK but on a forum someone who appears to be a dev denies that Amdocs ever did spyware (they wiretapped Bill Clinton and many other scandals) The main Matrix server is Element, hosted by the developers of Matrix. And the server can see a lot of info not necessarily the messages but a lot of metadata. So unless people use a custom Matrix server it's actually not private at all permalink fedilink source parent [–] Rei@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 week ago People love hating on stuff. I don't hate Matrix but I'm not a fan. My only experience was on mid-size chatrooms where that was enough to notice the usual e2e UX issues just amplified by the number of users. I also remember reading articles about security issues. Both of those things make me reluctant to use it. At the same time, I don't have a serious alternative to propose for multi-chatroom e2e messaging software (I haven't been looking though). permalink fedilink source parent
[–] evin@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 days ago (2 children) speaking as a former matrix user and fan, I hate it because: the protocol is absurdly complex and bloated despite the promises of an open standard making interoperable clients possible, Element is the only client that supports most of the features in my experience, and it has constant bugs. It's also slow and has some really annoying interface design issues, like not being able to adjust the width of the sidebar to where I want it (to be fair, many other messengers, like Signal, also have this problem) I had several experiences inviting someone to become a new Matrix user and having to immediately tell them that I couldn't decrypt their messages and the first 3 things we tried to resolve it didn't work. Made me feel like an ass for inviting them It has many security flaws (for example, all sorts of metadata and even some kinds of message content, like emoji reactions, are unencrypted) The whole "verify your device" nag thing is incredibly annoying and when I try to actually do it, it has almost never worked for me. Overall, I view it much like I do XMPP. it takes basically the same approach to everything and has all of the same downsides, except E2EE is easier to get working I guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] phoeniqz@lemmy.4d2.org 1 point 2 days ago (1 child) I don't know when you used matrix, but I have always avoided Element for the reasons you mentioned and so far. I think Matrix can only be an enjoyable experience without element permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] evin@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 days ago The end of my usage was about one year ago. I'd tried several other clients in the years prior (Fractal, Nheko, Mirage, and some others I forgot the names of) but all of them had their own major issues, severe enough to eventually drive me back to Element It's certainly possible the ecosystem has matured somewhat since then, but I would be skeptical because I think the root of the problem was not that these projects were too young, but that the protocol was too complex for anyone to implement properly, much like the web permalink fedilink source parent
[–] phoeniqz@lemmy.4d2.org 1 point 2 days ago (1 child) I don't know when you used matrix, but I have always avoided Element for the reasons you mentioned and so far. I think Matrix can only be an enjoyable experience without element permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] evin@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 days ago The end of my usage was about one year ago. I'd tried several other clients in the years prior (Fractal, Nheko, Mirage, and some others I forgot the names of) but all of them had their own major issues, severe enough to eventually drive me back to Element It's certainly possible the ecosystem has matured somewhat since then, but I would be skeptical because I think the root of the problem was not that these projects were too young, but that the protocol was too complex for anyone to implement properly, much like the web permalink fedilink source parent
[–] evin@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 days ago The end of my usage was about one year ago. I'd tried several other clients in the years prior (Fractal, Nheko, Mirage, and some others I forgot the names of) but all of them had their own major issues, severe enough to eventually drive me back to Element It's certainly possible the ecosystem has matured somewhat since then, but I would be skeptical because I think the root of the problem was not that these projects were too young, but that the protocol was too complex for anyone to implement properly, much like the web permalink fedilink source parent
[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 week ago* I hate it because it was developed by Israeli spyware company Amdocs in Israel. Then it moved to the UK but on a forum someone who appears to be a dev denies that Amdocs ever did spyware (they wiretapped Bill Clinton and many other scandals) The main Matrix server is Element, hosted by the developers of Matrix. And the server can see a lot of info not necessarily the messages but a lot of metadata. So unless people use a custom Matrix server it's actually not private at all permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Rei@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 week ago People love hating on stuff. I don't hate Matrix but I'm not a fan. My only experience was on mid-size chatrooms where that was enough to notice the usual e2e UX issues just amplified by the number of users. I also remember reading articles about security issues. Both of those things make me reluctant to use it. At the same time, I don't have a serious alternative to propose for multi-chatroom e2e messaging software (I haven't been looking though). permalink fedilink source parent
