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What's your favorite thing that anyone has done out of pure spite? (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world
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[–] 25 points 1 year ago (19 children)

I know there's been a few cases of people paying fines with wheelbarrows full of loose pennies.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    Obligatory caution that that can backfire if the recipient insists that the debtor counts the pennies. Or if the creditor refuses the pennies entirely, which is legal in some jurisdictions. (e.g. in the UK, pennies and 2p coins are legal tender up to amounts of only 20 pence. Anything beyond that is left to the discretion of the recipient.)

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (15 children)

    In the US, pennies are legal tender and have to be accepted as payment for debts owed. This tactic usually ended up in the fine being dismissed.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Pennies only have to be accepted if there is a state law saying so. For example in California if a landlord refuses a cash payment (pennies or otherwise) then the tenant basically gets free rent that month. Businesses generally set their own rules as to what is accepted. Just like you see signs saying "No bills over $20" - 50's and 100's are legal tender, but they can refuse them just like a bucket of pennies can be refused.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Title 31 (Money and Finance), Subtitle IV (Money), Chapter 51 (Coins and Currency), Subchapter I (Monetary System), Section 5103 (Legal Tender) of the United States Code states:

    United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Since you feel like quoting things is conducive to proper discusion:

    Is it legal for a business in the United States to refuse cash as a form of payment?

    There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise.

    Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," states: "United States coins and currency [including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve Banks and national banks] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues." This statute means that all U.S. money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor.

    https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues

    There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services

    Goods or services ≠ debts, public charges, taxes, and dues.

    A retail store, a restaurant etc. can refuse currency from a customer but a loan/lien holder, a public utility company, a government entity or an HOA must all accept any legal tender.

    You're confusing two separate situations.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    No, you're confusing two separate issues.

    If it's before the point of sale, they can refuse any form of payment. If you've already accrued the debt, they can't refuse it.

    At no point in this entire chain was I talking about payment for goods and services. My original statement was about fines levied by the city or state, which is a debt that the debtor legally has to accept pennies for, or discharge the debt.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Re-read my comment. You're saying the same thing I did. Did you think I replied to you and not the other user?

    Here's what I said:

    A retail store, a restaurant etc. can refuse currency from a customer but a loan/lien holder, a public utility company, a government entity or an HOA must all accept any legal tender.

    Which is the same as:

    If it's before the point of sale, they can refuse any form of payment. If you've already accrued the debt, they can't refuse it.

    The user I replied to who was responding to you said:

    There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services.

    I told them they were confusing two separate issues.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    There is no federal statute requiring private lendors to accept payment in the form of coins. The coins are legal tender but they dont have to be accepted.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

    The discussion is about fines. I'm not sure why you're talking about lenders.

    Also, Title 31 (Money and Finance), Subtitle IV (Money), Chapter 51 (Coins and Currency), Subchapter I (Monetary System), Section 5103 (Legal Tender) of the United States Code states:

    United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts.

    So yes, there is a federal statue requiring private lenders accept coins as payment.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I don't think that says what you think it does. Just because they are legal tender does not inherently mean (nor does that snippet say) that they cannot be denied as a form of payment.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Yes it does. It's a legal form of payment, and if a lender denies it, you can sue to have the entire debt discharged because the lender is refusing legal tender.

    If you're a debt holder, you're required by federal law to accept any form of legal tender as payment, which includes coins.

    Here's the full article I got the statute from.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You really should read down to the bottom of that article, where it says that businesses are allowed to set the terms of what forms of payment they'll accept as long as they do so before the deal is made or the sale is done. Your own source contradicts what you said.

    Don't quit your day job to start giving people legal advice.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago*

    Did you not read anything I said? You don't have a debt before the deal is made or the sale is done.

    The article does not say that the debt holder can specify the form of payment to exclude legal tender before the debt is incurred.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    I see child comments turning into some debate. lol

    Wasn’t there a case somewhere where someone tried to pay a settlement in pennies, and then they themselves were fined?

    Edit: maybe I’m thinking of this story https://www.costanzo-law.com/angry-employer-pays-in-pennies-then-gets-in-deep-legal-trouble/

    Though it’s not entirely clear to me what law this violates regarding legal tender. Seems more to do with employer / employee labor relations.

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