this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2025
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41
Germany not planning to recognise Palestinian state in short term (www.straitstimes.com)
submitted 1 week ago by schizoidman@lemmy.zip to c/europe@feddit.org
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.zip/post/44733623

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[–] brot@feddit.org -2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I'm actually quite surprised about those numbers. I've seen all those posts here about "Germany is supporting genocide" and I've seen people here insulting all Germans as "pro-genocide" and... do people even realize how little that support is in terms of military equipment? Yeah, people might say "every little bit counts", but 250 millions in 1,5 years of war is almost nothing in terms of military equipment. And they have given more money to UNRWA and PA in this timeframe? And people are going around posting that Germany wants to eliminate all Palestinians? I'm actually quite surprised right now because the numbers really do not match how aggressive people here are posting.

[–] burgerchurgarr@lemmus.org 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Germany is the second largest arms supplier to Israel after the US, period.

If you delivered only a little bit of gas or a little bit of fence to Auschwitz or just a little bit of ammunition to be used in the Warsaw Ghetto to suppress the uprising, it doesn’t matter. Even if you claim the gas or the fence or the bullets were used for self defense only. You chose your side and you are now complicit in genocide.

It’s very easy, either you are complicit in genocide or you aren’t. And Germany is.

[–] brot@feddit.org -2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

No need for Holocaust comparison here, dude

[–] burgerchurgarr@lemmus.org 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

So should we wait until every single Gazan is dead and our grandkids are learning about this in school and everyone is wondering how this could happen and swearing that it will never happen again?

What is the threshold of being able to compare this to the holocaust? How many people have to die exactly? All 7 million Palestinians, would that be enough for you?

What if more Palestinians would die, what if 20 million Arabs would become victims of Israel‘s genocide? Would I then be allowed to make a comparison? Or are you saying the Holocaust is "special“ in any way which implies that it’s a higher priority genocide than other genocides?

Was a concentration camp any more special because it was in Europe and not in Namibia? Is a Ghetto more special if it’s in Warsaw than in Gaza? Is a starved kid in one death camp more starved than that in another?

I am genuinely curious of how you’re going to justify that one genocide is worse than another. This was a long message, yet I’m speechless that you’re trying to "rank“ or more like gatekeep what’s considered a "bad enough“ genocide just because of your Staatsräson and your guilt.

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Germany's military support for the genocidal apartheid state of Israel is behind only that of the US. Nor is the support limited to only military aid. It includes decades of diplomatic cover, of suppression of any opposition, and wholesale endorsement of Israeli propaganda.

See:

https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/234763

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/7/why-are-german-politicians-supporting-israel-and-its-brutal-war-on-gaza

https://theconversation.com/german-chancellors-rebuke-of-israel-marks-a-shift-in-state-policy-that-has-long-put-such-criticism-out-of-bounds-258156

The PA is an arm of Israeli Apartheid, Occupation, and Suppression. See below

The PA creates the appearance of Palestinian autonomy, but in fact, much like the governments of the Bantustans of apartheid South Africa, it is simply an extension of the colonial state, a tool of counterinsurgency that is highly effective for the repression of local rebellions, because it makes the native population police itself. Fatah, which was a revolutionary movement in the early days of the armed struggle, is now mostly contained by the PA.

Israel’s stabilization strategy, inspired by modern counterinsurgency doctrine, has rested on two pillars: the employment of pacification measures to co-opt Palestinians and reliance on the Palestinian Authority (PA) to police its population on Israel’s behalf. However, many Palestinians are now fighting back against this approach, while the PA’s eroding legitimacy has only hardened the population’s refusal to accept its restrictive methods.

It is presented here as it has been perceived by the Israeli policymakers and bureaucrats down the years. For them the PA was an integral and crucial component in the open-air prison model suggested in the 1990s, and one which the pragmatic elite of Israel still hopes to instate in the West Bank, at least in the near future.

  • Ilan Pappe - The Biggest Prison on Earth

In appearance, the PA has all the trappings of a state, with ministries and a civil service, but Israel wields the real power, turning the tap on tax revenue, and controlling access to the shrinking territories – a status quo often compared with the Bantustans of apartheid-era South Africa.

The PA has actively helped Israel to keep tight control over the Palestinian population. Many perceive the body as a tool of the Israeli security apparatus, its US-trained forces not only targeting those suspected of planning attacks on Israelis, but also arresting union figures, journalists and critics on social media.

Israel relies on this division of the West Bank to foster the fiction that the Palestinian Authority is the entity primarily responsible for administering the life of the majority of Palestinians in the West Bank. In practice, however, Israel still retains control over the entire West Bank and all its residents.

[–] brot@feddit.org -3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

So ... what would your solution be? People are talking about recognizing Palestine as a state. You do think that the PA is an arm of Israel. Hamas is a murderous islamistic group. So where is the road to peace?

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

It's already a one-state reality, an apartheid state. The solution is equal rights and right of return for all Palestinians within historic Palestine, and reparations.

How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

Hamas, alongside many other factions, are resistance groups born out of the apartheid with the goal of liberation from the apartheid and ethnic cleansing.

De-development via the Gaza Occupation

Between July 1971 and February 1972, Sharon enjoyed considerable success. During this time, the entire Strip (apart from the Rafah area) was sealed off by a ring of security fences 53 miles in length, with few entrypoints. Today, their effects live on: there are only three points of entry to Gaza—Erez, Nahal Oz, and Rafah.

Perhaps the most dramatic and painful aspect of Sharon’s campaign was the widening of roads in the refugee camps to facilitate military access. Israel built nearly 200 miles of security roads and destroyed thousands of refugee dwellings as part of the widening process.' In August 1971, for example, the Israeli army destroyed 7,729 rooms (approximately 2,000 houses) in three vola- tile camps, displacing 15,855 refugees: 7,217 from Jabalya, 4,836 from Shati, and 3,802 from Rafah.

  • Page 105

Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.” This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986.

  • page 240

In a report released in May 2015, the World Bank revealed that as a result of Israel’s blockade and OPE, Gaza’s manufacturing sector shrank by as much as 60% over eight years while real per capita income is 31 percent lower than it was 20 years ago. The report also stated that the blockade alone is responsible for a 50% decrease in Gaza’s GDP since 2007. Furthermore, OPE (combined with the tunnel closure) exacerbated an already grave situation by reducing Gaza’s economy by an additional $460 million.

  • Page 402

  • The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy

Blockade, including Aid

Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.

After the 'disengagement' in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of 'dual-use' Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted.

The blockade and Israel’s repeated military offensives have had a heavy toll on Gaza’s essential infrastructure and further debilitated its health system and economy, leaving the area in a state of perpetual humanitarian crisis. Indeed, Israel’s collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population, the majority of whom are children, has created conditions inimical to human life due to shortages of housing, potable water and electricity, and lack of access to essential medicines and medical care, food, educational equipment and building materials.

Peace Process and Solution

Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.

Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution

How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

One State Solution, Foreign Affairs