this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2025
41 points (91.8% liked)

Europe

6875 readers
952 users here now

News and information from Europe 🇪🇺

(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)

Rules (2024-08-30)

  1. This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
  2. No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
  3. Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
  4. No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, islamophobia, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism. We follow German law; don't question the statehood of Israel.
  5. Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
  6. If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
  7. Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in other communities.
  8. Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
  9. No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)
  10. Always provide context with posts: Don't post uncontextualized images or videos, and don't start discussions without giving some context first.

(This list may get expanded as necessary.)

Posts that link to the following sources will be removed

Unless they're the only sources, please also avoid The Sun, Daily Mail, any "thinktank" type organization, and non-Lemmy social media. Don't link to Twitter directly, instead use xcancel.com. For Reddit, use old:reddit:com

(Lists may get expanded as necessary.)

Ban lengths, etc.

We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.

If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 7 or 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.

If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the primary mod account @EuroMod@feddit.org

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
federalreverse@feddit.org
poVoq@slrpnk.net
anzo@programming.dev
EuroMod@feddit.org
41
Germany not planning to recognise Palestinian state in short term (www.straitstimes.com)
submitted 1 week ago by schizoidman@lemmy.zip to c/europe@feddit.org
24 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.zip/post/44733623

all 27 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] brot@feddit.org 11 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

If you want to read the official press statement and not something from "Straitstimes" from Singapore, who are not the experts for german politics:

The German government remains convinced that only a negotiated two-state solution will bring lasting peace and security for Israelis and Palestinians.

It continues to regard the recognition of a Palestinian state as one of the final steps on the way to realizing a two-state solution. Israel's security is of paramount importance to the German government.

In this respect, it is not planning to recognize a Palestinian state in the short term.

The German government's priority now is to achieve overdue progress on the most urgent issues:

There needs to be a ceasefire in Gaza now. The hostages, including German nationals, must be released. Hamas must be disarmed; its terror unleashed not just on October 7 must end.

Israel must immediately and drastically improve the catastrophic humanitarian situation in Gaza. It must provide the suffering civilian population with urgently needed supplies in a humane manner.

A viable political perspective for Gaza is necessary to turn a temporary ceasefire into lasting peace.

There must be no further steps towards an annexation of the West Bank.

The German government is in constant contact with the Israeli government and its international partners on this issue. It is prepared to increase the pressure if no progress is made. The German government is continuing its aid to create the conditions for Palestinian statehood; this includes supporting the Palestinian Authority. These steps are absolutely necessary to end the suffering of the civilian population. They are also necessary in order to keep open the prospect of a two-state solution and thus lasting peace in the Middle East. The German government agrees with France and the UK on this, as do its partners in the region. This applies regardless of the well-known differences of opinion on the question of the right time for recognition.

https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/suche/2290066-2290066

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 5 points 1 week ago

This means:

"we will not move a finger and we are happy with the status quo. We know full well that Israel will never accept a two state solution and we intend not to put any pressure on Israel. Instead we will support Israel until the last Palestinian is either killed or ethnically cleansed."

Germany has been blocking most measures in the EU and UN to put any tangible pressure on Israel. The current chancellor Merz had announced his plan to defy the ICC arrest warrant on Netanyahu and invite him to Germany. The German president has shaken hands with Netanyahu in Israel as the total blockade on Gaza had been reestablished and the ceasefire broken by Israel. Germany continues to deliver military equipment to Israel and repress protest against the genocide. Francesca Albanese, the UN special rapporteur on the Palestinian territories was threatened with arrest in Germany and Universities were pressured to cancel events where she was supposed to speak.

All these statements by the German government are empty lies. I have watched the federal government press conference for the past two years. It is always the same statements, always the same lies, always the same trope of declaring claims from Israel as the ultimate truth that is parroted by the government speakers, always saying "Israel needs to investigate" when there is overwhelming evidence of yet another Israel war crime such as the execution of the 15 medics in March by an Israeli death squad.

If the words of the German government were printed on toilet paper, using that paper would make you more dirty even when you have explosive diarrhea.

[–] ohulancutash@feddit.uk -1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

“If at first you don’t succeed…”

- Germany for the past 110 years

[–] middlemanSI@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

They will wait for their friends to finish the job, then go: What Palestine?

[–] brot@feddit.org 1 points 1 week ago (3 children)

They called for a ceasefire, improvement of the humanitarian situation and a stop of annexations in the West Bank. Not sure how you came to your conclusion, maybe you want to explain?

[–] ViatorOmnium@piefed.social 6 points 1 week ago

I'm sure asking while making it clear there will be no consequences if they are ignored will change the situation on the ground. /s

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

If they're supplying weapons, they are supporting the genocide

[–] SebaDC@discuss.tchncs.de -3 points 1 week ago (2 children)

When did Germany supply weapons? Or is it companies based on Germany? There's a big difference.

Welcome to capitalism.

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 9 points 1 week ago

The German government has to approve of arms exports. The approval process is secret and the government refuses even to release information on what has been approved. When people from Gaza and their German relatives sued against it, the courts said that since the claimants cannot specify which weapons are sent and how that would put them at risk, they cannot sue against it, while the government has no obligation to provide that information to the courts.

This is not just capitalism. This is German bureaucracy and the pretense of lawfulness weaponized for killing people out of hatred again.

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Even if it were just companies simply based in Germany, no there fucking isn't. Funding genocide is funding genocide. Stopping arms shipments isn't even the bare fucking minimum.

In 2023, Germany's military exports were almost ten times higher than in 2022 after it extended sales to Israel in November 2023. Human Rights Watch reported that since 2015, the United Kingdom has given Israel military export licenses worth at least 474 million pounds ($594 million), tanks, ammunition, and components for the F-35 stealth bomber that was used in Gaza

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/15/which-countries-have-stopped-supplying-arms-to-israel

Germany has continued its military exports to Israel in recent months despite signs of worrying genocide in Gaza.

As reported by ANTARA from Anadolu, Wednesday, July 16, the German government confirmed that it had approved the delivery of military equipment and weapons worth 250.5 million euros (around Rp4.7 trillion) to Israel between January 1, 2024 and June 26, 2025.

According to official data, the approved export license amounted to 161.1 million euros (around Rp3.03 trillion) in 2024 and 28 million euros (around Rp526.9 billion) in the first quarter of 2025.

https://voi.id/en/news/496024

[–] brot@feddit.org -2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I'm actually quite surprised about those numbers. I've seen all those posts here about "Germany is supporting genocide" and I've seen people here insulting all Germans as "pro-genocide" and... do people even realize how little that support is in terms of military equipment? Yeah, people might say "every little bit counts", but 250 millions in 1,5 years of war is almost nothing in terms of military equipment. And they have given more money to UNRWA and PA in this timeframe? And people are going around posting that Germany wants to eliminate all Palestinians? I'm actually quite surprised right now because the numbers really do not match how aggressive people here are posting.

[–] burgerchurgarr@lemmus.org 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Germany is the second largest arms supplier to Israel after the US, period.

If you delivered only a little bit of gas or a little bit of fence to Auschwitz or just a little bit of ammunition to be used in the Warsaw Ghetto to suppress the uprising, it doesn’t matter. Even if you claim the gas or the fence or the bullets were used for self defense only. You chose your side and you are now complicit in genocide.

It’s very easy, either you are complicit in genocide or you aren’t. And Germany is.

[–] brot@feddit.org -2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

No need for Holocaust comparison here, dude

[–] burgerchurgarr@lemmus.org 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

So should we wait until every single Gazan is dead and our grandkids are learning about this in school and everyone is wondering how this could happen and swearing that it will never happen again?

What is the threshold of being able to compare this to the holocaust? How many people have to die exactly? All 7 million Palestinians, would that be enough for you?

What if more Palestinians would die, what if 20 million Arabs would become victims of Israel‘s genocide? Would I then be allowed to make a comparison? Or are you saying the Holocaust is "special“ in any way which implies that it’s a higher priority genocide than other genocides?

Was a concentration camp any more special because it was in Europe and not in Namibia? Is a Ghetto more special if it’s in Warsaw than in Gaza? Is a starved kid in one death camp more starved than that in another?

I am genuinely curious of how you’re going to justify that one genocide is worse than another. This was a long message, yet I’m speechless that you’re trying to "rank“ or more like gatekeep what’s considered a "bad enough“ genocide just because of your Staatsräson and your guilt.

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Germany's military support for the genocidal apartheid state of Israel is behind only that of the US. Nor is the support limited to only military aid. It includes decades of diplomatic cover, of suppression of any opposition, and wholesale endorsement of Israeli propaganda.

See:

https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/234763

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/7/why-are-german-politicians-supporting-israel-and-its-brutal-war-on-gaza

https://theconversation.com/german-chancellors-rebuke-of-israel-marks-a-shift-in-state-policy-that-has-long-put-such-criticism-out-of-bounds-258156

The PA is an arm of Israeli Apartheid, Occupation, and Suppression. See below

The PA creates the appearance of Palestinian autonomy, but in fact, much like the governments of the Bantustans of apartheid South Africa, it is simply an extension of the colonial state, a tool of counterinsurgency that is highly effective for the repression of local rebellions, because it makes the native population police itself. Fatah, which was a revolutionary movement in the early days of the armed struggle, is now mostly contained by the PA.

Israel’s stabilization strategy, inspired by modern counterinsurgency doctrine, has rested on two pillars: the employment of pacification measures to co-opt Palestinians and reliance on the Palestinian Authority (PA) to police its population on Israel’s behalf. However, many Palestinians are now fighting back against this approach, while the PA’s eroding legitimacy has only hardened the population’s refusal to accept its restrictive methods.

It is presented here as it has been perceived by the Israeli policymakers and bureaucrats down the years. For them the PA was an integral and crucial component in the open-air prison model suggested in the 1990s, and one which the pragmatic elite of Israel still hopes to instate in the West Bank, at least in the near future.

  • Ilan Pappe - The Biggest Prison on Earth

In appearance, the PA has all the trappings of a state, with ministries and a civil service, but Israel wields the real power, turning the tap on tax revenue, and controlling access to the shrinking territories – a status quo often compared with the Bantustans of apartheid-era South Africa.

The PA has actively helped Israel to keep tight control over the Palestinian population. Many perceive the body as a tool of the Israeli security apparatus, its US-trained forces not only targeting those suspected of planning attacks on Israelis, but also arresting union figures, journalists and critics on social media.

Israel relies on this division of the West Bank to foster the fiction that the Palestinian Authority is the entity primarily responsible for administering the life of the majority of Palestinians in the West Bank. In practice, however, Israel still retains control over the entire West Bank and all its residents.

[–] brot@feddit.org -3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

So ... what would your solution be? People are talking about recognizing Palestine as a state. You do think that the PA is an arm of Israel. Hamas is a murderous islamistic group. So where is the road to peace?

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

It's already a one-state reality, an apartheid state. The solution is equal rights and right of return for all Palestinians within historic Palestine, and reparations.

How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

Hamas, alongside many other factions, are resistance groups born out of the apartheid with the goal of liberation from the apartheid and ethnic cleansing.

De-development via the Gaza Occupation

Between July 1971 and February 1972, Sharon enjoyed considerable success. During this time, the entire Strip (apart from the Rafah area) was sealed off by a ring of security fences 53 miles in length, with few entrypoints. Today, their effects live on: there are only three points of entry to Gaza—Erez, Nahal Oz, and Rafah.

Perhaps the most dramatic and painful aspect of Sharon’s campaign was the widening of roads in the refugee camps to facilitate military access. Israel built nearly 200 miles of security roads and destroyed thousands of refugee dwellings as part of the widening process.' In August 1971, for example, the Israeli army destroyed 7,729 rooms (approximately 2,000 houses) in three vola- tile camps, displacing 15,855 refugees: 7,217 from Jabalya, 4,836 from Shati, and 3,802 from Rafah.

  • Page 105

Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.” This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986.

  • page 240

In a report released in May 2015, the World Bank revealed that as a result of Israel’s blockade and OPE, Gaza’s manufacturing sector shrank by as much as 60% over eight years while real per capita income is 31 percent lower than it was 20 years ago. The report also stated that the blockade alone is responsible for a 50% decrease in Gaza’s GDP since 2007. Furthermore, OPE (combined with the tunnel closure) exacerbated an already grave situation by reducing Gaza’s economy by an additional $460 million.

  • Page 402

  • The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy

Blockade, including Aid

Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.

After the 'disengagement' in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of 'dual-use' Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted.

The blockade and Israel’s repeated military offensives have had a heavy toll on Gaza’s essential infrastructure and further debilitated its health system and economy, leaving the area in a state of perpetual humanitarian crisis. Indeed, Israel’s collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population, the majority of whom are children, has created conditions inimical to human life due to shortages of housing, potable water and electricity, and lack of access to essential medicines and medical care, food, educational equipment and building materials.

Peace Process and Solution

Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.

Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution

How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

[–] burgerchurgarr@lemmus.org 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

They should call for an end of genocide and apartheid, a ceasefire is meaningless because this isn’t a war this an extinction campaign supported by the West and Germany at the forefront along with the US.

Edit: ok OP is a Zionist

[–] SebaDC@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 1 week ago

Germany. Instead of protecting Jewish people as a backlash for the horrible things you did... Protect people from ever being submitted to that horrible treatment. Whether they are Jewish or not.

[–] Squizzy@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Germany are part of this problem, a bigger part than most. They committed the holocaust and then set in motion this genocide only to now defend it and morally grandstand to those who have a pair of balls and recognise the reality.

Germany shouldnt give any "we are not the nazis" shit when this is how they still carry themselves.