this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2025
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We all know you what you really meant:
"Stop drawing conclusions from empirical data, it interferes with my prejudice and bigotry."
Or, did you actually think you were courageously taking a stand for...what, exactly? Being a jerk?
Did it really never occur to you that choosing to let your ignorant fear shape your perspective makes you weak??
Lol. There is plenty of empirical data to show that the best men are better than the best women.
Have a gander at the records in all sports.
If that does t cut it, how about the European studie that tested the strength and fitness of over 2 million kids. It showed that top 5% of male at birth is stronger than top 1% of at the age of 9. It gets much, much more skewed after puberty.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/52/22/1445.long
Please tell me you didn't realize we're talking about athletes that have undergone HRT and this study isn't applicable in that case.
Wow.
We could pretend that you forgot to say something about "when it comes to sports" or some other kind of qualifier, but we all know that'd be a lie.
So, thank you for proving my point. It is truly just sad and pathetic the way you try to pretend like you even know empirical data means.
Take your bigotry and shove a back up your ass where it belongs.
(Did you really think that quoting an extremely widely discredited study that did not involve any empirical data whatsoever was some kind of gotcha? Jesus Christ, that's just pathetic)
For the record, obsessing over other people's genitalia is just fucking weird.
2 million people tested. Seems pretty solid if you ask me.
Well, we are talking about sports? Are you actually trying to undermine my argument just because you can't follow context? Stop arguing if you have nothing other than bad faith to come with.
Give me a better study showing that the trans medication actually works. The best anyone has given so far was a study showing 15 random people of Facebook that didn't even compete in sports.
Whoa. Seriously? So if we're not talking about sports you seriously just believe men are better than women.
Yeah goodbye. I'm done with you
ESAR.
Read their comment again: the grammar is a little convoluted, but they're just saying that they were talking about sports and that they were not ranking men above women in general.
Edit: spelling
And only bad faith readings from you since you can't understand that we are talking about sports.
Go lick a salt block or something.
A nazi stan wearing it in his username.
Get fucked lol.
Has had this nick since before the automaker existed, i'm not changing it just because people don't think about Nikola tesla enough.
Says more about you than me.
None of this proves the op comment you replied to was "making shit up", their only claim was that some trans women have less testosterone than cis women.
Not even the top men high school boys where better then the top female athletes.
There are of course differences depending on the sport. But eventually the best men are better than the best women, which is the whole issue summed up. At the very least in physical sports.
Explosive sports exposes the issue more clearly. Which is why 15 year old boys win against the womens national team in football (soccer). 14 year olds have beat elite teams in womens hockey.
How many of these best men become trans? Can you name a few?
Doesn't matter if, but that they could.
Because the primary causitive variable here isn't the person's sex chromosomes but their relative hormone levels. It's highly correlated to the sex chromosomes that one is born with, which is what your data shows, but it isn't the cause.
Barring a syndrome, there is direct cause between being born with sex chromosomes and hormone shifts during puberty.
A rare example would be Caster Semenya. I 100% think she should be allowed to compete as a woman, as she was born as one. Even if her hormones are raised due to mutation.
If the doctors had designated her sex "correctly" when she was born would you hold the same opinion?
Why is her situation any different than someone who medically matches her hormonal levels, irregardless of assigned sex at birth?
There is no confusion about her sex. She was born as a woman and she considers herself a woman (not that it matters for sports, only that she was born as one)
Obviously taking drugs to match would be incredibly wrong. Just like doping is wrong.
You are conflating sex and gender, she has 5α-reductase deficiency which exclusively effects individuals with an XY karyotype.
Either all women^1^, including Semenya, fall under that umbrella or none of them do. Pick one.
If your concern is about "unfair advantages gained via doping" then the majority of trans women competing are being much more fair because they are undergoing HRT to bring the "doping" back to within the typical woman baseline.
Unless your moral outrage is because you're drawing a distinction between naturally occuring and artificial doping?
^1 I should have to fucking say this, but based on the fact we're having this conversation: this inherently includes trans women.^
This is the issue at hand. How can you possibly justify reverse doping when none is allowed? This introduction of alteration that isn't and can't be available for everyone is inherently unfair. It also is troublesome in the opposite direction. What is then the legal limit for doping of a trans male? Can they take as much as they want since it's part of their condition?
That's unfortunately how genetics works.
I thought being assigned female at birth made someone inherently and irreversibly weaker and so they would be non-competitive in men's sports /s.
Seriously though that's a largely solved problem. While specifics will vary depending on the specific org this set of guidelines outlined by the World Anti-Doping Agency is a decent enough framework and directly answers that.
That's fair. Changing it by medication or doping isn't.
I gave it as an example for you to understand the position. Clearly it didn't work.
There is no example of a trans male winning against the best men in competition. Just the other way around. But then again we haven't tested how far people might go in their roiding.
Define your goalposts, what exactly is "winning against the best in competition"?
Chris Mosier seems like someone who consistently does win in those competitions.
If he doesn't count then who, specifically, does "the other way around"?
It's axiomatic. The best means the best. Objectively. Fastest, highest, longest, game won. You understand?
Participating in the Olympics, only to not even finish isn't exactly winning though.
I could find one victory in total, which was a smaller size meet for men over 40. Truly the best. Not bashing effort in any way, he likely puts in a lot of work. All athletes do.
So your goalpost is a world record? No trans, non-binary, etc. individual I can find has set a world record in any sport.
If we lower the goalpost to 'any trans, non-binary, etc. individual winning gold in the Olympics' again nobody meets that criteria^1^. Dropping it to simply medaling? Again nothing.
^1 Quinn the soccer player arguably does meet this criteria, but it's a team sport. Using that as your sole evidence of 'loads of examples of the opposite' seems extremely cherry picked doesn't it?^
Yeah? No shit they haven't, born men aren't allowed to compete against women. I recon there are thousands of athletes that could decide to transition to female and beat the world records for women.
They are though, just going through the last 2 Olympics the list of openly trans individuals: Laurel Hubbard, Chelsea Wolfe, Quinn, Ness Murby, Nikki Hiltz, Raven Saunders.
You can look these things up, stop being a willfully ignorant bigot.
Laurel Hubbard was an average to poor male athlete that couldn't qualify in mens competition that decided to change and won silver immediately.
Even if I don't think she actually did transition to win at sports, the result is the same.
Thank you for making my point for me.
She competed in the 2021 Olympics but did not finish. Same as Chris Mossier who you so casually dismissed as a counterexample.
She did win silver in the 2017 World Weightlifting Championships. You do notice how you moved the goalposts we previously established in order to get the answer you desired?
You are continuing to be willfully, and now maliciously, ignorant.