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I really liked Chappelle show, but he's really gone bad the last few years being anti trans and all. To say he's canceled is a bit much, though. He's still rich and popular, and selling tickets.
Well hes certainly not canceled. He just had a new Netflix special. Been getting them consistently the entire time.
anti-trans is popular with the right wingers, incel crowd.
and him being in saudia arabia, and furthering his anti-trans comedy is just adding to the fire.
I don’t think he’s actually anti-trans, he just likes making jokes about them and refused to be cowed by people telling him to stop. Just my sense of it though.
There are jokes punching up, and jokes punching down.
Chapelle is in a position of punching down, here.
So he's just a shithead asshole instead of a bigot? Pretty lateral move, honestly, if he doesn't even believe in the bigotry he spreads.
He quit his show because bigots were using his material to laugh AT black people instead of WITH them. But he's more than happy to change the butt if the joke so he can still feel good about the jokes he makes instead of having to be self reflective.
I don't think social mores factor into it all for him. When he said he finds the position of trans people genuinely funny, I think he was being honest. I do think he went too far with his jokes about them, simply in terms of sheer number; it was a social faux pas that strained the credulity of his stated position, but I personally believe him when he says he just finds the whole situation very funny.
I think he doesn't care what other people think of his comedy at this point, and I don't really have an opinion on that. I suppose I sort of respect it, but I also think he's definitely passed into the realm of bad taste at this point. I don't think he means anything bad by it though. Maybe he is insensitive, but comedians aren't known for their sensitivity. I understand the criticism against him for it and think it's valid.
I'm not defending the offensiveness of his jokes, just stating that I think they're just jokes to him, and he doesn't actually mean them in a mean-spirited light. If I were to talk to him about it, I would probably ask him how he feels about White comedians that make jokes about Black people, who also claim they're not advocating anti-Black views, and just find the humor in their situations. I imagine he might reveal himself to be quite the hypocrite under that line of questioning. Most of us are hypocrites.
I honestly think that he is a subversive ally.
Like, the things that he says, the way that he says them pisses off trans people and gets the anti-trans people on his side.
But then he also preaches a philosophy of live and let live, do whatever the fuck you want to do, just leave me alone and let me live my life, which also goes to his enemies.
So there are probably people who have transphobia, who like Dave Chappelle, who leave trans people alone, or quickly identify themselves to trans people by making a Dave Chappelle joke or reference, and therefore, incidentally, protect trans people from interacting with people that might otherwise do bad things to them.
I could be wrong. He might just be an asshole. He probably is an asshole either way. I'm not a stan for him, but that's the vibe that I get from his whole act.
The problem with that is that the libertarians that attracts are hypocrites. They don't let live, just like Chapelle himself isn't letting live.
It's easy to say "live and let live" when you're in a relative position of unassailable authority.
It's easy for someone with the means to do whatever they want to say "everyone should be able to do what they want".\
Are you suggesting violence as an appropriate response to his commentary?
Have you encountered anyone who has been emboldened to commit either emotional or physical crimes against another person because of something Dave Chappelle has said or done?
If so, then I'm more than willing to change the way I view his schtick, but I cannot find any correlation between an increase in any sort of hurt or violence towards trans people, and anything Dave Chappelle has said or done.
I think he's serving as a pressure release valve for the people who have never encountered a trans person (who was not masking their transness) or who have suddenly been thrust into the realization that the world contains trans people and don't know how to cope with it.
Therefore I feel like the things that he says have an overall net positive effect on the way trans people are treated, even though he himself looks and sounds like a piece of shit saying it and that he offends trans people when he says it.
What the fuck?
That is crazy disingenuous. If you're this passionate about the subject then you know full well it's not the work of a single person, it's normalized a little at a time, bit by bit, until people do feel emboldened to take action. Chappelle is part of the problem, and as a very public figure then it's even less ok to let it slide, because people take cues about what is ok and what isn't from public figures.
And if you're going to say that trans people aren't already the subject of discrimination, than we cannot have a civilized discussion.
"I should be allowed to mock you, but you shouldn't be allowed to do anything about it" < your words
Isn't not giving Dave Chappelle money or time or attention the grand sum of things that you can do about his stance without violence?
I think you and I have had interactions elsewhere on Lemmy, and typically they're very antagonistic and I don't know why that is.
I earnestly try to be a reasonable person and to express my views without judgment of other people.
I do this in hopes that debate produces something positive, but from what I remember, typically, no matter what I say to you, your response is to exacerbate the argument rather than resolve it.
Sometimes other people have views that do not mesh with yours, yet they are not your enemy.
I know trans people. I have trans friends. I live in a very progressive area by choice. I have gone to protests to protect women and trans people alike.
I am an ally, and if you think that me believing or having a reason to believe that Dave Chappelle is also an ally makes me not an ally, then that's pretty much the end of the conversation, right?
"do anything about it" doesn't have to mean violence. What the fuck? Why is that the first thing you jump to?
Yes, that is the do anything about it that I'm talking about. The thing Chapelle calls cancel culture, and fights against. So if violence isn't allowed and neither is organizing to have a voice as loud as his, then what is allowed besides letting him have his way?
I don't choose who is or isn't an ally.
If the consensus of the trans community is supporting Chapelle, then I'll shut up about it because I'd clearly be mistaken, but that doesn't seem to be the case afaict, which aligns with my understanding of why Chapelle is problematic in general; he uses libertarianism as a carte blanche to pick on minorities. this just demonstrates how libertarianism is ironically discriminatory in practice, but it teaches bigots a language to defend themselves with.
How am I supposed to interpret this, from someone who immediately accused me of supporting violence and then doubled down on that accusation?
I doubt he'd go around punching/harassing transpeople (but correct me if I'm wrong, of course, I'm not dying on the Dave Chapelle hill, lol), he might just disagree with some of the current Western culture around it and understanding of it.
"It's not like he goes around assaulting trans people, he just disagrees with the current culture of letting trans people be who they are instead of masking and hiding themselves"
Yeah while I think Chapelle is entitled to free speech as a comedian and all that, his doubling- and tripling-down with the trans jokes are not only unfunny, they are embraced by bigots and embolden their subsequent hateful rhetoric and actions. If Chapelle actually cared one iota about trans people, he would just tell jokes about literally anything else. It's not like there's a shortage of topics to poke fun at.
He's a petulant, obstinate, man baby and deserving of all the backlash he has received. I honestly think he must be washed up and creatively tapped since he won't let the trans jokes go.