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Why would China do anything that helps us pick ourselves up and onto our feet? This is the goal they and Russia have been working towards for decades.
Nah-uh. No blaming China or Russia on this one. The United States did this squarely to themselves with the world pleading otherwise. They inserted their own head in the vice and started spinning the handle.
Sure, it aligns with the communist block's benefit, but the US really needs to be held accountable for its own idiocy on this one. Its the first step in recovery.
Neither Russia nor China are communist anymore. Russia is run by corrupt capitalists and has been since the 1980s, and the only thing Communist about China is the name of the totalitarian party that runs its government, which consists of a mix of state-funded and private capitalist enterprise.
China is very much a socialist economy
Really? The workers control the means of production? From here, it looks like state capitalism augmented by inconsistently regulated private enterprise (which sometimes leads to the entrepreneurs disappearing when they've neglected to grease the correct set of Party palms).
More than 60% of the Chinese economy is state owned and controlled, and as of I think a year ago they democratized Chinese company structures by mandating assemblies of employee representatives. The state having majority control and direction of the Chinese economy and market is the primary complaint of western trade partners, I don't know why people are always surprised by this.
I get that people really do not like the authoritarian aspects of the Chinese government, but state-controlled economies are pretty much the exact intent behind 'worker-controlled means of production' in marxism.
Socialism isn't just when the government does things. In between workers and the state needs to be a free and functioning democracy.
Yes, that famous part of Das Capital where marx coins the term "democracy of the proletariat"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship_of_the_proletariat
Yup.
You act like that's different than a democracy, please define why.
A 'dictatorship of the proletariat' has elements of democracy, but it is explicitly not the same as a liberal democracy (nor is it really the same as a straight-out dictatorship). It's possible that some people prefer the Trotsky version of socialist states (one where multiple socialist parties might compete for power), but the ML single-party version is still very much within marxist theory.
The Chinese political system is democratic, just not in the same ways a western democracy might be. Western liberals seem to either not know (?) how the Chinese system works, or miss-understand what 'democracy' means as it pertains to Marx's 'dictatorship of the proletariat'. Either way, @explodicle@sh.itjust.works seems to be operating under a liberal-democratic understanding of democracy, but that's really not a given in marxist theory.
What "communist" block are you talking about? Is this 1989?
Only if you take what I said very literally. The Chinese and the Russians are concluding, I'm sure you would agree.
Colluding, you mean?
Colliding, colloidally.
Of course, spelling was never my strong suit.
I do appreciate being corrected. Thank you...
I'm starting to feel like this is a controversial opinion, but maybe the American people should be the ones holding their own government accountable? Interventionism is the worst way to fix a country and I very much doubt it even could be done for a country like America.
I am hoping the US splits apart, allowing the red states to destroy themselves. Conservatism is a cancer, and the condition would be easier to excise if it was a solid tumor.
Too many innocent people will be taken down as the cult self-destructs.
We can just show up in ICE uniforms and take them to the free state.
One way or another, the cult will murder people just because, and will continue to do so until the cult is extinguished. It is better to hasten that by being willing to oppose the regime. Many people are being trafficked by ICE.
Difficult to argue against, except America is doing this too us as well, and we don't get a vote.
All the more reason to not do anything about it. Let America implode and their interventionist power also takes a hit.
It's been fucking wild as a resident of a non-us country seeing some of the commentary coming up. We must radical empathy! How dare other countries take advantage of X Y or Z? The shoe is on the other foot, and by GOD is it a problem if anyone but the US starts doing what the US has been doing to everyone else on the planet my entire freakin' life
We all know they're propaganda riddled exceptionalists but goddaaaamn. Need to learn to accept cause, effect and consequence
Trump provided China an excellent excuse to start a trade war and look like the heroes while doing it. This is absolutely Trump's fault, but China has no reason to not take full advantage of it.
TBF we already started it ourselves
That's true. The US has been interfering in other country's domestic affairs for decades. Organising the odd coup, overthrowing elected leaders. Suddenly people are shocked to learn that it can work both ways.
A country with strong democratic institutions are pretty resilient to these tactics. You might not trust the politicians, but you trust the officials, the military and the courts.
It seems that the US has dismantled trust in these institutions for a long time. It has let corporations run the show. So Russia and China have an easier task.
That's a bit tautological, like "It they could break it, it needed fixing anyway."
And that's a bit too much like "If Hitler could invade France, it's the French's fault for not fighting back harder."
Russia has been at war against the American people since Putin and traitorous US oligarchs imposed Trump on us in his first term. It's victim-blaming to say that's the American people's fault.
Ah, yes, the famous denial of fascists in your own country.
YOU VOTED IN TRUMP WITH A MAJORITY KNOWING HE IS FASCIST.
This is squarely the fault of the American people. Lack of education and political will might be to blame, but to say that you are victims is such a farce that I don't believe you live in reality.
He won by razor thin margins and many didn't even vote. So yeah, most Americans are victims here.
A minority didn't vote for trump, which is what you meant to say, I think. And those who didn't vote might as well have voted for him. Genocide protest or not, your country didn't care and is not educated enough to care about fascism.
Such selfishness has never been seen before in a people as what is seen in the USA. Trump is the result of this lack of caring for others. This is why you don't have universal healthcare or other such services.
If you had any empathy as a nation, you would still be the greatest on the planet. How far you have fallen in such a short time.
Karma, unfortunately, is real, and your chickens have come home to roost.
$7.25/hrs minimum wage in the richest country on the face of the earth shows how much you guys really care about each other.
I could go on, but it wouldn't motivate you enough to revolt, so why would I bother.
You are a nation of temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
I'm not sure your allegory is very apt.
Oh so we're denying that Russia and China led disinformation campaigns squared solely at disrupting American politics for decades? Are we also ignoring the Murdochs from Australia?
Just wanted to get that straight before I started saying whatever the fuck I want.
The embarrassing thing is a lot of that disinformation was shared on social media networks that were created in the US.
Creating the tool that your enemy uses effectively against you is not a good look.
i believe russia be to blame, it kinda obvious weakeaning america helps putin, it has been his goal for 10years,.
Trump was getting fat on Russian mob money since the 1980s, probably as a reward for him ratting out the Italian mob to Giuliani, which created expansion opportunities for the Bratva.
putin ramped up his misinformation, conveniently around the time he was elected , '16-17 on reddit we saw significant purges for the very first time, and peoples sensitivites as massively increased. my very first bans of an og account around that time.
Mate, the Murdoch's? America's lap dog newspaper moguls.
They're you're mouth piece of shit trying to force Australia to be more like you sepppos
Rupert Murdoch was born in Australia, what even are you talking about?
I'm saying that Murdoch doesn't work for Australians and our interests. He's a lapdog of the US
Murdoch has never served the interest of any state. He has relentlessly pursued his agenda, which is to undermine the centrist quasi-democracies in English-speaking countries and to promote nationalist authoritarianism.
And bailed his citizanship the instant the US proved more likely to give him the easily manipulated press he wanted
russia maybe, because putins directing trump to do this, more or less it helps russia in the long run.
"Never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake."