▲ 623 ▼ "China is AuThORItAriAN!" - Liberals (europe.pub) submitted 6 months ago by Smackyroon@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml 451 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (9 children) You didn't engage with my argument, so I won't with yours either. Let's call it phrasemongering. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 15 points 6 months ago (8 children) I did engage with your point, we aren't talking about a dictatorship but a democratically run country, and not numbers gathered by the country itself but by western, hostile countries. Your analogy does not compare, western orgs have consistently found high approval rates. Why? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -10 points 6 months ago (7 children) Whether or not the country calls itself democratic isnt relevant. Engage with this: why does Russia have high approval rates? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (6 children) Russia's approval rates are largely self-reported, unlike China's which are reported by tons of western organizations. These are not equal situations. Further, China doesn't merely call itself democratic, it is democratic. The Chinese political system is based on whole-process people's democracy, a form of consultative democracy. The local government is directly elected, and then these governments elect people to higher rungs, meaning any candidate at the top level must have worked their way up from the bottom and directly proved themselves. Moreover, the economy in the PRC is socialist, with public ownership as the principle aspect of the economy. Combining this consultative, ground-up democracy with top-down economic planning is the key to China's success. I highly recommend Roland Boer's Socialism in Power: On the History and Theory of Socialist Governance. Socialist democracy has been imperfect, but has gone through a number of changes and adaptations over the years as we've learned more from testing theory to practice. Boer goes over the history behind socialist democracy in this textbook. The working classes in socialist countries are the ones dictating the state and its direction. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (5 children) It passes in terms of what democracies are in practice but the political suppression, surveillance, and censorship that China is known for its anything but democratic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago (4 children) Why should capitalists be allowed in the democratic processes of a socialist state? True democracy means rule by the people, not a privledged class. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (3 children) That's not what I said. Under the veneer of censoring capitalism, you allow broader censorship. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (2 children) Censorship is not a blanket thing, it's specifically targetting misinformation, pro-capitalist speech, and that which undermines socialism. The working classes use it to silence capitalists. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (1 child) You're saying that, why should I believe that's actually the case? Censorship is always done with some sort of "positive" narrative tied to it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 6 months ago Because it's the reason censorship is used. People don't censor for fun, but to protect the system. China is socialist and run by the working classes, it would not have the support it does if it was brutally oppressing them. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 15 points 6 months ago (8 children) I did engage with your point, we aren't talking about a dictatorship but a democratically run country, and not numbers gathered by the country itself but by western, hostile countries. Your analogy does not compare, western orgs have consistently found high approval rates. Why? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -10 points 6 months ago (7 children) Whether or not the country calls itself democratic isnt relevant. Engage with this: why does Russia have high approval rates? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (6 children) Russia's approval rates are largely self-reported, unlike China's which are reported by tons of western organizations. These are not equal situations. Further, China doesn't merely call itself democratic, it is democratic. The Chinese political system is based on whole-process people's democracy, a form of consultative democracy. The local government is directly elected, and then these governments elect people to higher rungs, meaning any candidate at the top level must have worked their way up from the bottom and directly proved themselves. Moreover, the economy in the PRC is socialist, with public ownership as the principle aspect of the economy. Combining this consultative, ground-up democracy with top-down economic planning is the key to China's success. I highly recommend Roland Boer's Socialism in Power: On the History and Theory of Socialist Governance. Socialist democracy has been imperfect, but has gone through a number of changes and adaptations over the years as we've learned more from testing theory to practice. Boer goes over the history behind socialist democracy in this textbook. The working classes in socialist countries are the ones dictating the state and its direction. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (5 children) It passes in terms of what democracies are in practice but the political suppression, surveillance, and censorship that China is known for its anything but democratic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago (4 children) Why should capitalists be allowed in the democratic processes of a socialist state? True democracy means rule by the people, not a privledged class. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (3 children) That's not what I said. Under the veneer of censoring capitalism, you allow broader censorship. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (2 children) Censorship is not a blanket thing, it's specifically targetting misinformation, pro-capitalist speech, and that which undermines socialism. The working classes use it to silence capitalists. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (1 child) You're saying that, why should I believe that's actually the case? Censorship is always done with some sort of "positive" narrative tied to it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 6 months ago Because it's the reason censorship is used. People don't censor for fun, but to protect the system. China is socialist and run by the working classes, it would not have the support it does if it was brutally oppressing them. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -10 points 6 months ago (7 children) Whether or not the country calls itself democratic isnt relevant. Engage with this: why does Russia have high approval rates? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (6 children) Russia's approval rates are largely self-reported, unlike China's which are reported by tons of western organizations. These are not equal situations. Further, China doesn't merely call itself democratic, it is democratic. The Chinese political system is based on whole-process people's democracy, a form of consultative democracy. The local government is directly elected, and then these governments elect people to higher rungs, meaning any candidate at the top level must have worked their way up from the bottom and directly proved themselves. Moreover, the economy in the PRC is socialist, with public ownership as the principle aspect of the economy. Combining this consultative, ground-up democracy with top-down economic planning is the key to China's success. I highly recommend Roland Boer's Socialism in Power: On the History and Theory of Socialist Governance. Socialist democracy has been imperfect, but has gone through a number of changes and adaptations over the years as we've learned more from testing theory to practice. Boer goes over the history behind socialist democracy in this textbook. The working classes in socialist countries are the ones dictating the state and its direction. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (5 children) It passes in terms of what democracies are in practice but the political suppression, surveillance, and censorship that China is known for its anything but democratic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago (4 children) Why should capitalists be allowed in the democratic processes of a socialist state? True democracy means rule by the people, not a privledged class. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (3 children) That's not what I said. Under the veneer of censoring capitalism, you allow broader censorship. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (2 children) Censorship is not a blanket thing, it's specifically targetting misinformation, pro-capitalist speech, and that which undermines socialism. The working classes use it to silence capitalists. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (1 child) You're saying that, why should I believe that's actually the case? Censorship is always done with some sort of "positive" narrative tied to it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 6 months ago Because it's the reason censorship is used. People don't censor for fun, but to protect the system. China is socialist and run by the working classes, it would not have the support it does if it was brutally oppressing them. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (6 children) Russia's approval rates are largely self-reported, unlike China's which are reported by tons of western organizations. These are not equal situations. Further, China doesn't merely call itself democratic, it is democratic. The Chinese political system is based on whole-process people's democracy, a form of consultative democracy. The local government is directly elected, and then these governments elect people to higher rungs, meaning any candidate at the top level must have worked their way up from the bottom and directly proved themselves. Moreover, the economy in the PRC is socialist, with public ownership as the principle aspect of the economy. Combining this consultative, ground-up democracy with top-down economic planning is the key to China's success. I highly recommend Roland Boer's Socialism in Power: On the History and Theory of Socialist Governance. Socialist democracy has been imperfect, but has gone through a number of changes and adaptations over the years as we've learned more from testing theory to practice. Boer goes over the history behind socialist democracy in this textbook. The working classes in socialist countries are the ones dictating the state and its direction. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (5 children) It passes in terms of what democracies are in practice but the political suppression, surveillance, and censorship that China is known for its anything but democratic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago (4 children) Why should capitalists be allowed in the democratic processes of a socialist state? True democracy means rule by the people, not a privledged class. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (3 children) That's not what I said. Under the veneer of censoring capitalism, you allow broader censorship. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (2 children) Censorship is not a blanket thing, it's specifically targetting misinformation, pro-capitalist speech, and that which undermines socialism. The working classes use it to silence capitalists. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (1 child) You're saying that, why should I believe that's actually the case? Censorship is always done with some sort of "positive" narrative tied to it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 6 months ago Because it's the reason censorship is used. People don't censor for fun, but to protect the system. China is socialist and run by the working classes, it would not have the support it does if it was brutally oppressing them. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (5 children) It passes in terms of what democracies are in practice but the political suppression, surveillance, and censorship that China is known for its anything but democratic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago (4 children) Why should capitalists be allowed in the democratic processes of a socialist state? True democracy means rule by the people, not a privledged class. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (3 children) That's not what I said. Under the veneer of censoring capitalism, you allow broader censorship. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (2 children) Censorship is not a blanket thing, it's specifically targetting misinformation, pro-capitalist speech, and that which undermines socialism. The working classes use it to silence capitalists. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (1 child) You're saying that, why should I believe that's actually the case? Censorship is always done with some sort of "positive" narrative tied to it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 6 months ago Because it's the reason censorship is used. People don't censor for fun, but to protect the system. China is socialist and run by the working classes, it would not have the support it does if it was brutally oppressing them. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago (4 children) Why should capitalists be allowed in the democratic processes of a socialist state? True democracy means rule by the people, not a privledged class. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (3 children) That's not what I said. Under the veneer of censoring capitalism, you allow broader censorship. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (2 children) Censorship is not a blanket thing, it's specifically targetting misinformation, pro-capitalist speech, and that which undermines socialism. The working classes use it to silence capitalists. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (1 child) You're saying that, why should I believe that's actually the case? Censorship is always done with some sort of "positive" narrative tied to it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 6 months ago Because it's the reason censorship is used. People don't censor for fun, but to protect the system. China is socialist and run by the working classes, it would not have the support it does if it was brutally oppressing them. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (3 children) That's not what I said. Under the veneer of censoring capitalism, you allow broader censorship. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (2 children) Censorship is not a blanket thing, it's specifically targetting misinformation, pro-capitalist speech, and that which undermines socialism. The working classes use it to silence capitalists. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (1 child) You're saying that, why should I believe that's actually the case? Censorship is always done with some sort of "positive" narrative tied to it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 6 months ago Because it's the reason censorship is used. People don't censor for fun, but to protect the system. China is socialist and run by the working classes, it would not have the support it does if it was brutally oppressing them. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (2 children) Censorship is not a blanket thing, it's specifically targetting misinformation, pro-capitalist speech, and that which undermines socialism. The working classes use it to silence capitalists. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (1 child) You're saying that, why should I believe that's actually the case? Censorship is always done with some sort of "positive" narrative tied to it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 6 months ago Because it's the reason censorship is used. People don't censor for fun, but to protect the system. China is socialist and run by the working classes, it would not have the support it does if it was brutally oppressing them. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Yliaster@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (1 child) You're saying that, why should I believe that's actually the case? Censorship is always done with some sort of "positive" narrative tied to it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 6 months ago Because it's the reason censorship is used. People don't censor for fun, but to protect the system. China is socialist and run by the working classes, it would not have the support it does if it was brutally oppressing them. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 6 months ago Because it's the reason censorship is used. People don't censor for fun, but to protect the system. China is socialist and run by the working classes, it would not have the support it does if it was brutally oppressing them. permalink fedilink source parent