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Why do people have issues with OnlyFans Models and Porn Stars. (sopuli.xyz)
submitted 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) by to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml
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I understand that some of the criticism comes from conservatives but the sentiment seems to extend far beyond thst. Of course, I understand it when it's forced or when someone only does it to survive against their will. But if people genuinely want to do it, why do people hate on them?

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[–] 13 points 6 months ago* (28 children)

Reducing people to objects is generally bad.

Only fans also promote sexualization of girls/teens.

It's well established in social research that the patriarchy uses sexual objectification of women to help keep them reduced as second class citizens.

It helps promote the idea that "women want to be sexually assaulted and they like sexual harassment".

Taking blame from the predators.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectification

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-objectification

Additionally. Turning intimacy and affection into something to be sold or bought devalues this aspect of human connection.

https://www.thorn.org/research/library/commodified-online-sexual-interactions/

Consent and Commodification: Objections to the Market for Sex Work https://pressbooks.lib.vt.edu/pper/chapter/article-4/

I personally think sex work should be decriminalized for the prostitute but not the johns.

Sex work is not something people do because its a choice but out of need for finances.

Meaning it's a form of coercion and exploitation.

You could argue most work/labor is that. It is. I won't say its not.

But sex work perpetuates harm more (physical, mental and promotes misogyny in our society) and specifically harms women the most. Though it harms anyone working in that industry.

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  • [–] 21 points 6 months ago (26 children)

    Sex work is not something people do because its a choice but out of need for finances.

    This may be true in many or most cases but I’ve met sex workers who like their job and want to keep doing it because it’s an easy and fun way to make a lot of money.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (25 children)

    Easy money. So finances?

    Self objectification is also a problem in our society.

    Do you remember how women athletes used to say all the time how it was empowering to be naked in the swimsuit sports illustrated magazine.
    ?

    Our culture has convinced women that their greatest value is being sexy and getting sexual attention and unfortunately a lot of younger women believe this.

    They don't realize that this mindset and acceptance of these values promote the very system that harms them and others.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (22 children)

    Easier money than doing other work. They could make ends meet other ways, I’m sure, but this is easier and more fun.

    Like, I could make ends meet as a roofer but making more money for sitting in front of a computer is easier and more fun.

    As for the other stuff, all I can say is that they weren’t all women.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (21 children)

    I think you are really downplaying the risks here. I have friends who have done sex work. It's incredibly dangerous. Men may hurt you. They may stalk you. They may give you a std.
    Sometimes the woman agrees to a specific service and the man forces her to do something she said she didn't want to do.

    It's not like they can go to the police.

    Police will just say "well that's what you get for being a whore".

    Trans women in sex work have even higher rates of violence and murder.

    Men (usually young) are also subjected to the same risks as women.

    Also just because it's easy doesn't mean it's the best long term option

    I mean most of the problems in this world are caused by people wanting things the easy way even if it makes things harder later.

    Do sex work in your 20s instead of developing a career. Then when you are too old and 40 with no job prospects and no skills, and no one wants you. What then ?

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (18 children)

    think you are really downplaying the risks here. I have friends who have done sex work.

    As do I. Friends and family both. And I have never heard a sex worker say any of the things you ascribe to them.

    Do sex work in your 20s instead of developing a career. Then when you are too old and 40 with no job prospects and no skills, and no one wants you. What then ?

    I'm wondering if you actually know that many people in the industry. Bcs I'm middle aged, everyone I know who does SW is close to my age, so they're all 35+, mostly over 40, and doing fine.

    But if that weren't the case, the same question can be asked of anyone doing manual labor, once your body breaks down (which happens a lot earlier for manual laborers), what do you do?

    To borrow an old quote: If you think that the prostitute sells her body and the coal miner does not, your view of labor is clouded by your puritanical view of sex.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (17 children)

    Okay so you don't actually know anyone who has aged out of sex work .

    My "puritanical views". Is this a joke?

    My stance is I'm against human trafficking. I'm against pimps. I'm against workers being hurt by johns. I'm against the promotion of misogyny and objectification of people. I'm against capitalism turning human connection into just another thing to exploit for money. I'm especially against the harms it perpetuates in society.

    And I'm against people resorting to the high risk sex work because it's the easy choice when there should be better options for people.

    People have more value that tits and ass. Or a hole.

    They actually do.

    You can pretend the risks and statistics I gave you aren't real.

    It doesn't make them false.

    Also I certainly don't appreciate your strawman what-aboutism argument.

    We aren't talking about people who do labor jobs. We are talking about sex workers.

    Jesus. How can you possibly believe that sex work is good for women. I mean. Seriously. How fucked up is it to believe that ?

    Why would you support the systems that harm women the most. Why. ? Do you hate women ? I can't see why anyone would think sex work is a great career opportunity for women except people like Epstein and trump.

    Cause those are the types of people that benefit from women being exploited this way.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (16 children)

    Okay so you don't actually know anyone who has aged out of sex work .

    And obviously neither do you. But I do know men women and enbys still doing and enjoying sex work at the age you specifically picked as the age where they "can't" do it anymore and their life will be over for having done sex work. Which was my point, and one you've utterly failed to engage with since you now know you were very wrong.

    My "puritanical views". Is this a joke?

    No, it's a quote, and I apparently misremembered it, since the original word was "moralistic" not "puritanical".

    To be clear: sex work is as bad as any other form of labor coerced by capitalism, it just isn't worse than any other form of labor coerced by capitalism. Only the kind of magical thinking that says sex is some special sphere of human activity that should be considered sacred would ever tell you otherwise.

    And the pimps, Epsteins, and human traffickers of the world benefit directly from moralistic views of sex. If we treated sex exactly the same as any other full contact sport, there would be far less danger for sex workers who report bad behavior from clients or employers, and there would be far less demand from creeps who want to buy children, because there is a definite correlation (even if no proven causal link) between heavily moralistic views of sex and CSA. This is why religious leaders so often wind up being child rapists.

    Finally if you think there's anything strawman or whataboutism in comparing sex work to any other form of work under capitalism, then you do not understand the point I'm making at all, which is that there is no moral difference between the sex worker and the coal miner in a capitalist society. In a socialist society there's a discussion to be had about whether sex work is socially necessary labor, but there is no question it is labor.

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  • [–] -2 points 6 months ago (15 children)

    But it is worse.

    That's my whole point backed up with research.

    And it specifically makes the world more hostile for women and girls.

    It perpetuates the very systems that harm us under the guide of "sexual empowerment".

    Please think about who benefits the most from sexual objectification of women and girls.

    It is not women and girls. No matter how you spin it as "empowerment" or anything else.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (13 children)

    I think you are missing the forest for the trees here, a capitalist society is by design hostile to any "second class" person (women, disabled, POC).

    You need to ground these ideas and think what policies would work on this. If you try to abolish sexwork the only think you will accomplish it even worse conditions for any informal worker. Any person that was willing to perform that kind of work would be out of any protection.

    So what are your policies?

    Would people still do 'sexwork' in a socialist society? If they have no need to work for shelter or food, would people still do it?

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  • [–] -2 points 6 months ago (12 children)

    So do nothing because the world isn't perfect. ?

    As I keep saying. There is scientific evidence supporting the harms of sexual objectification. The harms of making prostitution legal.

    You can pretend it's not true. Doesn't change the reality.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (10 children)

    You keep making claims, but you don't bring any evidence. I suspect that's because you know how utterly unscientific most of the "studies" that support your position are and how the only thing they really prove is that exploitation of labor is bad regardless of the kind of labor. But since you're really dedicated to the "sex is special and magical" kind of bullshit magical thinking, I'm sure they seem very persuasive to you.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (9 children)

    I literally gave multiple resources links in my original comment.

    Its honestly sad to see so many people believe the Epstein class rhetoric has women's best interest in mind.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (8 children)

    I literally gave multiple resources links in my original comment.

    Wikipedia articles and opinion pieces by political advocacy groups run by Neoliberal politicians and literal cops aren't very strong evidence of anything. The one actual study you linked, like most others in its (usually church funded) genre, just proves something anyone could have told you: marginalizing a group of workers makes them more vulnerable to exploitation and less able to seek legal help when it happens. Any undocumented farm worker could tell you the same thing.

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  • [–] -2 points 6 months ago* (7 children)

    Why is it only poor people do sex work ? https://www.uoc.edu/en/news/2025/study-90-percent-women-prostitution-only-option-survival

    If it's so wonderful , why not upper class women and girls?

    Why does prostitution increase when wealth disparity increases?

    Why is prostitution more common in poorer countries? https://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyle/younger-girls-forced-into-prostitution-in-economic-crisis-conference-idUSBRE8B4107/

    Why is prostitution more abundant in my mysoginist inequality countries? https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/etudes/join/2014/493040/IPOL-FEMM_ET%282014%29493040_EN.pdf

    Why does legalizing prostitution increase rates of violence and sexual assault on local women.?https://www.researchgate.net/publication/298317834_Rape_and_other_sex_offenses_in_Nevada_1990-2007

    Why does legalizing sex work increase trafficking? The challenges of fighting sex trafficking in the legalized prostitution market of the Netherlands https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10611-013-9512-4

    Here is another thing to consider. Sexual liberation is being free to express your own sexual desires and sexual behaviors without fear of stigmatization.

    Sex work is being paid to conform to an expectation of a client , usually a man. A man that is unable to attract a partner due to various reasons. But none the less, is the type that has to pay for someone to pretend to want to be with them.

    Being paid to pretend to want to have sex with someone is peak anti-sexual liberation.

    It's saying the sex workers pleasure and desires are irrelevant. Her only purpose is to apease a man's pleasure. Not her own.

    And she needs to smile while she does it.

    Why is it mostly only women who do sex work? Why is that? Almost like if things were actually equal it wouldnt be so 1 sided.

    Don't confuse turning a profit for freedom. You have a very capitalistic view of sex. Capitalism not only fuels racism. It 100% fuels inequality.

    Also. My previous Links were from university websites. Research articles about published peer reviewed articles and Wikipedia articles to define definitions. I'm guessing you didn't actually look at them.

    Have you ever considered which systematic aspects of our society fuel the patriarchy and inequality or do you think it just appeared one day and stays around for no reason?

    You ever wonder why so many people vote against their own self interest?

    Because they are tricked into thinking their shackles are freedom and liberation. They willingly put them on. Tell others it's wonderful to be sold. It's liberating, infact. So much sexual empowerment to be an object abused and used.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Rich people don't to sex work like they don't do any kind of work that requires real labor, more news at 11.

    Now being serious, I fail to see how that makes sexwork any special that it needs to be removed completely.

    As usual you won't tackle what the previous user said:

    Any undocumented farm worker could tell you the same thing.

    Because yes! farm workers are usually exposed to chemicals used in farming with minimal protection (gloves and masks) while sweating under 40 degrees Celsius at least on California

    You already know why this happens and why it is exploitative

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    When is the last time a farm worker was raped. Given a std that's permanent. ?

    Beaten. Stalked. ?

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago* (1 child)

    i was about to tell you they get cancer from these chemicals but it was too obvious for me, let alone thinking only sex workers are raped while working

    but at this point you just wanna measure who wins exploitation olympics instead of recognizing they are exploited in radical different ways

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Ok, I get it, you believe very passionately in bronze age sexual mores. You don't have a persuasive case to make that the things you've listed here are unique to sex work, nor have you addressed my point about other forms of exploitive labor and marginalized people. I suspect that's because deep down you know there is no case to make there, unless you start from the position that sex is special and magical, and you're simply not used to arguing against someone who explicitly rejects that presupposition.

    Also. My previous Links were from university websites. Research articles about published peer reviewed articles and Wikipedia articles to define definitions.

    Literally everyone can just scroll up a few replies to see that it's exactly what I said: two Wikipedia articles, one opinion piece by an anti sex work crusader org with literal cops and Neoliberal politicians on its board, and a study that doesn't control for any confounding factors (most such studies are funded by the LDS or Catholic Church, so they don't control for those factors bcs they know they won't get the results they're being paid for if they do. Didn't read far enough to know of your study is one of those, but statistically speaking the odds are good).

    Have you ever considered which systematic aspects of our society fuel the patriarchy and inequality or do you think it just appeared one day and stays around for no reason?

    I've read extensively on the subject and I will say again what I've said several times in this thread: 100% of patriarchy comes from the belief that sex is special and magical and from that the ideas of virginity and purity come to guarantee paternity and maximize the selling price of daughters, from there comes almost all of the forms of patriarchy.

    Now if you can explain without any magical thinking or putting sex into a special category just why you think that sex workers arearginallzed and exploited in a way that is materially different from undocumented farm workers, please do so. If not, please shut the hell up, because it's now painfully obvious to everyone that your magical thinking doesn't hold up to any scrutiny.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 child)

    I think people should have sex with who they want. Not who they are forced to because of poverty.

    If that's bronze age morals, so be it.

    Also lots of upper middle class women work. Most do actually.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    I think people should have sex with who they want. Not who they are forced to because of poverty.

    Fine. Me too. But I also think people should speak to and do nice things for who they want, not who they're forced to because of poverty. But you put sex work in a different category from customer service or the service industry in general. The only way that works is if you think sex is magical and different from conversation or service. And the only way that makes sense is if you've swallowed the bronze age bullshit sexual mores that dominate most of the world today.

    And you're still absolutely refusing to engage with the actual point, so I have to just assume you're being disingenuous at this point.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    perpetuates the very systems that harm us under the guise of "sexual empowerment".

    No matter how you spin it as "empowerment" or anything else.

    When you're using the same "arguments" as an evangelical televangelist to rebut an argument no one is making, I suspect you're probably not arguing in good faith.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Which is why every one of them supported making sex work legal so they have those protections.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

    How does making sex work legal help a 40 year old with no skills or job experience?

    Decriminalizing sex work is much more effective at reducing crime on the sex workers.

    If you don't believe me, look into the Netherlands.

    They have a huge problem with sex trafficking because it's legal to sell sex there.

    It doesn't protect anyone. It encourages sex trafficking and pimping. Especially for foreign victims and young girls.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_the_Netherlands

    In 2017, it was estimated by the Dutch National Rapporteur on Trafficking in Human Beings and Sexual Violence against Children that more than 6,000 people in the Netherlands fall victim to human trafficking each year.[6][7] Two thirds of the people trafficked, about 4,000 people per year, fall victim to sexual slavery and abuse.[6] This group consisted largely of Dutch women, including minors (1,320 girls each year) who were preyed upon by so-called "lover boys".[7] The other 2,000 victims of human trafficking were largely foreigners who were put to work by organized crime groups.[6]

    https://humanityinaction.org/knowledge_detail/the-audacity-of-tolerance-a-critical-analysis-of-legalized-prostitution-in-amsterdams-red-light-district/

    I know it sounds like legalizing it would help sex workers. But the reality is that it doesn't.

    Objectification of bodies never leads to good ends.

    https://eclj.org/geopolitics/eu/legal-prostitution-and-human-trafficking-in-the-netherlands?lng=en

    How about instead we invest in free education and job training and pay people a living wage so that the dangerous sex work isn't their best option for survival.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    This is getting too close to denying women agency for my liking.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago

    Protecting women from trafficking and pimps is denying them agency?

    I specifically said I'm against criminalizing sex workers.

    This is akin to denying critical race theory.

    Stop and think about who benefits. It literally is the Epsteins of this world benefiting from this glamorized false narrative about how sex work is.

    I would never hold it against a women for choosing sex work. What I do have a problem with is the systems that have made sure she doesn't have any better options.

    These false narratives that it's empowering.

    And the men in power who push this narrative that her only value is whatever they like about the way she looks.

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