It seems that most of the time, my discussions with people about socialism and communism end up on the topic of "but people are inherently bad, or at least a few people are, and will always take advatange of others. Even during natural disorders, some go steal everything in the stores while other help strangers"

I always have a hard time arguing that human nature depend on the environment, that it takes a few generations, and that there is probably always going to be violence but it's marginal and can be taken care of.

What main ideas am I missing? And how to argue about this and respond to this central idea that refrain a lot of liberals?

Thank you!

If you have any theory that you want to point at, that would also be great

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[–] 14 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

It's the human nature of empathy, socialisation and collaboration that allowed us to survive as a species as we know it; including the passing on and development of knowledge and technology within a generation, and from one generation to the next so we don't start from scratch each time. We survived despite our selfishness (as defined limited to the ingratiation of self at the expense of society) not soley because of it.

Capitalism itself tends towards the socialisation of labour, socialism takes it the next step forward and socialises the surplus value.

That's the science of human nature, anthropology and politcal economy in a nutshell. (If you want to go further I would suggest the Dialectical Biologist by Lewis and Lewontin).

Capitalism promotes sociopathy to be the axiom of governance whereas a scientific socialist society harnesses any spectrum of sociopathy towards the overall good of the proleteriat. They can't fathom it in the same way sufficiently advanced science is indistinguishable from magic, even when you see it before your very eyes (eg there's a litany of youtube videos of liberals glazing China but unable to relay that it is because of marxism-leninism).

So they misconstrue what surivival of fitness is, what evolution is, and draw metaphysical parallels with biological "competition" to their fantasy of a free market and then dare to say you're the unscientific one.

It is human nature to force the fascist to face the wall. It is also human nature for that fascist to exist. We are only demonstrating which nature of human will win in the end.

Dialectical and historical materialism - Stalin https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Library:Dialectical_and_historical_materialism

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