Burn_The_Right comments on This happened in Edinburgh, Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[–] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.today 9 points 1 week ago (4 children)

MAGA is a cult. Conservatism is not. A conservative cannot be changed by any amount of "deprogramming". They are biologically unable to experience empathy.

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[–] StabbingSky@lemmy.zip 12 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Yes, they can. There's a reason that college "turns kids liberal." It's because meeting people from various cultures and backgrounds and learning that they're just people too does a lot to combat the indoctrination they experienced.

Many of these people literally don't know any better because they've been lied to their whole lives. Critical thinking and questioning authority is actively punished. The media that they were raised on trained them to think that any other source is lying to them.

It takes work, sometimes a lot of it, but most people can be reached. I've personally helped several people, even converting a "god put dinosaur bones in the ground 6k years ago to test us" believer.

But saying every conservative is a sociopath incapable of change just shows that you lack the ability to be empathetic. If there's absolutely no room for forgiveness, then what reason do they have to change?

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[–] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.today 17 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

I appreciate your position. That was my position until the conservatives started killing people in the streets.

I also agree on the point regarding education. But to be fair, I don't consider a 20 year old a real conservative, simply because they barely understand themselves yet. A young person who is able to experience empathy will eventually find their empathy completely incompatible with conservatism. It is not possible to experience empathy for others and hold conservative views simultaneously. Conservative views fundamentally defy empathy. Education speeds up that realization for young people, which is why it looks like it "turns them" into normal people.

Many conservatives are college educated. The reason they didn't change in college is because they couldn't feel empathy in college, just as they cannot feel empathy after college.

I'm glad you were able to reach someone who identified as conservative. That's not easy at all. I tried to change my conservative friends, family and colleagues for decades. Getting your friend to change is an exceptional accomplishment. If they are able to experience empathy, then I am sure their change will be permanent.

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[–] StabbingSky@lemmy.zip -5 points 1 week ago* (1 child)

Those are maga thugs. You made the distinction between the two earlier.

The conservative voters think everyone ICE is kidnapping or killing is a violent criminal, because the media they were brainwashed into believing tells them so.

And they're also trained that empathy is a weakness. That's why you often see them change stances when something actually affects them. It's not because they're incapable of being empathetic, it's because they've been trained not to be and the issue impacting them sometimes makes them realize how other people felt.

Of course, I'm definitely not saying that every person can be converted. Some people are too entrenched, but it's definitely not all of them. But it's absolutely a mistake to dehumanize every conservative like that. It's one of the main tactics of fascism, and removes empathy from the equation.

Also, the approach to converting these people is crucial. If they even catch a hint that you're talking down to them or trying to prove them wrong, they'll shut down. You have to make it seem like you're on board with their position, and ask clarifying questions to plant seeds of doubt.

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[–] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.today 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I'm not downvoting you. You are engaging in good faith, and I appreciate your instinct toward kindness to them.

When conservatives are shown definitive proof that their thugs are harming innocent people, they do not change their position. They simply say, "well, I don't know about that". But that is a lie. They DO know about that. They do know what is happening right now and they are absolutely not interested in changing or stopping it. Their representatives hold both chambers of congress. Conservatives can stop this anytime they like and they are actively choosing not to. They completely understand the situation at this point and are choosing evil.

I agree that they are trained to see empathy as weakness. Growing up in south Texas, living there my whole life and then retiring there, I was told empathy was a grotesque weakness my entire life. Every person who told me that was a conservative who could not experience empathy. Because I am able to experience empathy, their lies could not work on me. But the lies worked very well on my friends, neighbors and colleagues who could not experience empathy.

I have been nothing but kind and supportive of them my entire life, mostly because I didn't want to blame them for their biological shortcomings. It's not their fault they can't experience empathy. But it is their fault that they choose to harm others and celebrate that harm. Their inability to feel guilt or empathy does not absolve them. They choose to be the very definition of evil.

I have never talked down to them. I have always been supportive and have used the Socratic method and genuine, patient curiosity to try to reach them. I mourn the loss of my friends anf family that I have disowned. No amount of patience and kindness has been effective in changing them from being a deadly threat to the vulnerable around them. Their choices result in concentration camps and the loss of human rights. And they still celebrate it.

Conservatives will never stop harming others on their own. No amount of patience or love can make them stop. This is the sad reality of conservatism. It is cancer. There is only one way to stop cancer.

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