Autism and narcissism (multiverse.soulism.net)
submitted 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) by to c/autism@lemmy.world
 

Autism, as a word, is Latin for self-ism. It was named in the early days of Psychiatry by doctors who didn't understand what it was like for us. But what they noticed was, we seemed more preoccupied with ourselves than other people, so they called the condition self-ism in Latin.

Narcissism comes from the Greek myth of Narcissus, who was cursed by Nemesis to fall in love with his reflection (see Conon, Ovid). So Narcissism is also named after this idea of being preoccupied with yourself. And there hasn't been as much social progress on NPD, so a lot of people still think the same way today.

Etymologically speaking, the disorders are named pretty much the same. Early psychiatrists thought that these two conditions looked pretty similar to one another from the outside. And as someone with both autism and NPD, I get it, mate.

I've got reduced cognitive empathy from My autism, and the ability to voluntarily suppress affective empathy from My NPD. Affective empathy is the ability to sense others' feelings, and cognitive empathy is the ability to sense others' thoughts. So neurotypicals literally have a (limited) ability to read minds that we autistics don't get.

And a lot of the research literature says people with NPD can't sense others' feelings, but that's not My experience. I can choose not to feel others' feelings, when I want. I think I picked up the ability from being abused and guilt tripped as a kid. Now that I'm grown up, I get to choose whether I'm susceptible to attempts to abuse Me with My empathy. For example, a few weeks ago My bio mum told Me that My dead sister was abused by our adoptive parents, while I was the "golden child". My sister went out to suicide, so I think most egotypicals would get survivor's guilt from that. But I have NPD to protect Me from that kind of abuse, I'm used to shrugging that stuff off.

So there are lots of differences between the two. But also similarities. NPD is a mix of genetics and trauma, while autism is purely genetic. Both give Me meltdowns sometimes, when sensory stress or ego stress get to be too much. I have times when I have to mask both of them, and times when I don't and I might be accepted, or I might get in social trouble.

And both of them give Me a really acute sense of just how fake all of society is. Both of them motivate Me to defy social norms. Both give Me a strong justice sensitivity. I can't stand to see something I think is wrong or unfair.

So anyway, ask Me anything about living with NPD! I want to chat and make My experience of neurodivergence understood!

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[–] 4 points 1 week ago (2 children)

https://embrace-autism.com/empathy-quotient/

Embrace-autism has changed their website around a bit. When I first looked last year, most of the tests had some personal notes from a few of the doctors at the clinic giving their opinions on the tests and sharing their own results. Unfortunately I cannot find those, but I do remember for the Empathy Quotient one in particular some of the doctors had very high scores (indicating they were very empathetic, and according to sone less autistic). It kind of depends on how exactly you define empathy, and when you add in things like the double-empathy problem and alexithymia it means that test can sometimes under-report empathy in autistic people. The site still has a lot of information about it, but I do miss the personal anecdotes.

I scored very highly, which makes sense to me. I am concerned with myself, and also concerned with how I fit into greater systems of people. I am one of the autistic people who is hyper-vigilant about social cues: I am constantly noticing mismatches in body language, tone, word choice, etc in other people. Honestly I find other autistic people usually have very consistent messages across all of these things, just a lower intensity. It is allistic people who tend to give contradictory communication in my own personal experience.

I have high cognitive empathy. Emotional empathy... Well, I am usually pretty good at understanding other people's emotions. I can allow other people's emotions to influence my own when I want. But usually when I am in the presence of others my own emotions are neutral. From a cognitive testing perspective, I have very high working memory and very low processing speed, so for social interactions I try to be neutral and safe and store all the details to replay and process later, when I have less sensory input to deal with.

I really like the word "autistic" because of the social aspect, rather than anything to do with empathy. I do not feel an urge to go out and make friends or be with a lot of people. I do not dress or behave in a manner to fit in with any group. I have had sports as special interests in the past, but I've never been a "jock". I listen to metal music, but i'm not a "metalhead". I enjoy cannabis but i'm not a "stoner". My wife has gotten into satanism and started calling herself "goth" the past few years, gotten more tattoos and dresses more in black with a lot of skulls and chains and stuff. I wear black sometimes, but I only have 1 "goth" outfit that I wear a couple of times a year to go to events with her.

I see a lot of allistic people gather together into groups and "lose themselves". Even some autistic people do this. I went to Anthrocon and saw the way people divide themselves into the animal archetypes. But it's not just a one-way interaction of "I am like this, so I will join with a group of others who are also like this". Rather, the group tends to form its own mannerisms which propagate and spread to the individuals, including new members. It is a two-way interaction between the group and the individual.

My wife's satanic organization has a good amount of autistic people. Some of them get all "gothed" up like she does. But if you go to events and look for the people who look the most like me: few tattoos, few piercings, probably wearing regular blue jeans or sweatpants, wearing solid colored t-shirts or flannels or button-downs with simple patterns.... That handful is 100% autistic. The ability to hold on to oneself and resist (or be immune to) the influence of social pressure on mgseld as an individual. I think that's one of the key traits about myself, and one that may be correlated with autism.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 days ago

    I have very high working memory and very low processing speed

    Interesting. I have extremely poor working memory to the point that I sometimes question whether I have dementia, but extremely fast processing speed. This will lead me to speak extremely fast in order to catch up with my thoughts, stumble on my words, and then forget what I was talking about. Genius.

    I have both the 'tism as well as severe ADHD, I'm on a really high dose of Vyvanse and Venlafaxine.

    In general, I feel extremely dumb when it comes to social interactions. I don't read between the lines, I don't read body language, and I often struggle to understand anything that is slightly vague. I have to ask for "clear, direct" instructions at work and sometimes even that fails because an assumption was taken that I don't hold, and thus cannot carry on processing what was communicated.

    I've also been told that I inadvertently emit body language or vocal tone without realizing, which generally does not match how I feel, so it's all accidental and meaningless. Allegedly I sound angry when I'm passionate, for example. Or I sound fake when I'm apologizing.

    It's just wild to me how much people with autism can sit at extremes of each other.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago

    A lot of highschool frustration I had made sense when I learned that other people had an instinctual drive to follow other peoples behaviors. It's not bad I think there is benifits to following herd behavior I think, but I have personally benifited from being comfortable to buck or ignore trends in my life for sure too.

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