you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 1 point 6 days ago (2 children)

Absolutely. But also remember that the concept of Third Places coined by Oldenburg focused on the wrong thing. A lot of the examples of "welcoming and leveling" places were actually pretty deeply exlusionary, which makes a lot of the Third Place rhetoric a white, male, heteronormative fantasy.

And importantly, it's starting from a contradictory place to build a theory of pure civic community around spaces that rely on capital. A business's primary goal is profit. The moment a patron stops spending money or takes up a table for too long, the illusion of "neutral civic ground" dissolves. By focusing on establishments (where the primary activity is conversation and consumer lingering), his theory ignores the Commons, the true public infrastructure like plazas, parks, and sidewalks. The argument can be made that instead of trying to revive Oldenburg's nostalgic storefronts, society should focus on the "right to the city" in the shared public ownership of physical space where citizens don't need a consumer identity to exist.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 4 days ago (1 child)

    Very true and a welcome point of view.

    I can say that practically, growing up very low income, we (small sample of course) could exist for hours, months and years in these places without spending a dollar and without being harassed - and that was with a pretty diverse group (by race, gender, neon hair color and pierced bodies/clothing), but this was in a more predominately progressive, middle class community (bordering wealthy areas) to be fair. And importantly we did always exist in the shadow of it, regardless of spend, and that has to have an effect on some.

    I can say that the behavior continued in a form as an adult when I would work from a certain coffee chain using angles with their loyalty program to buy a single coffee for under $2 and work the whole day, consuming maybe $50 retail while working in a more comfortable environment than I could afford otherwise, with connectivity, air conditioning and power.

    So by no means ideal, but with today's desert of connection as an alternative, I think myself and others were able to learn, connect and grow in these spaces, within very limited means, and I can pretty confidently say without suffering impacts of indoctrination or desire to rejoin these places as an adult, as a "fully productive" and participatory member of society.

    So my hope would be that people still had those imperfect spaces (of course supplementing the truly free community supported options you mention) for those lessons they did offer, the community one could build and the perspective gained by close proximity to the problems within these spaces (learning what not to do, seeing that the person who carried 4 bags from different stores still didn't look happy. It didn't "fix" her)

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment