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[–] 1 point 6 days ago (17 children)

Good point. If my $25 was the only thing standing in the way of a starving person being murdered, and I knew that, I would be a total piece of shit for giving my $25 to someone else instead... does this sound familiar to you?

If you'd prefer, I'll go grab five tubs of peanut butter and drop them off at the food pantry. That'll be about $25 if I buy the name brand.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 days ago (16 children)

    I'd greatly prefer that, yes. Then you'd be actually helping people instead of hurting them.

    Failing to help someone in need can be a moral failing, but it much less of one than actively harming a person. Maybe the best thing to do would be to give all that you have to the poor, but I'm not going to accuse people of "murder" based on that, and I don't think it would be reasonable to.

    One of the problems you people have is that you think you've found the objective answers to philosophy just by going with your first instinct, without even realizing it's what you're doing. You don't see your assumptions the same way a fish doesn't notice water. You don't consider that they could be wrong because you don't identify them in the first place. And so you wind up with this contradiction of trying to scold me for having morals, because your morals, to you, are not moral beliefs at all, but simply "common sense."

    So long as you see things that way, you will never be able to understand the perspectives of people who disagree with you, or speak their language. And so you will be building a political coalition where, "Don't murder hundreds of thousands of innocents" is considered an unacceptable imposition, where everyone is expected to put the interests of the party above even their deepest held convictions. It seems like that coalition would be quite small.

    In practice of course, it's only the left that's expected to make such sacrifices. When a centrist complains that the Democrats are too far left on a particular topic, the party bends over backwards to accommodate their concerns. We are the only ones expected to abandon everything we care about and submit, and we are the only ones the party attacks so openly, denouncing us as "antisemites" whenever anyone says that Palestinians should have rights.

    As someone who doesn't even subscribe to your framework of "Lesser-Evilism," and who see it as both unexamined and utterly ridiculous, why on earth would I bend the knee to a party like that? But most of you can't even conceive of someone who doesn't believe in Lesser-Evilism, because you don't even realize it's a belief, again, like water to a fish.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 days ago* (15 children)

    This was an awful lot of words to explain that you don't understand how your government works. It's not a "framework of "lesser-evilism."" It's just how the system works.

    If you don't think the one of two candidates closer to your side is far left enough, primary them. It's that simple.

    Do you know why we all know this is how it works? The GOP did it 15 years ago. Right leaning voters showed up consistently, and so they dragged the GOP to the right. You (yes you!) could do the same to the Democrats, but you refuse, so the GOP wins and the DNC says "wow fuck these progressives let's try to win over centrists with Liz Cheney!"

    You are the reason the DNC you complain about sucks. Should I buy smooth or crunchy, or a mix? I'm leaning towards smooth.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (14 children)

    This was an awful lot of words to explain that you don’t understand how your government works. It’s not a “framework of “lesser-evilism.”” It’s just how the system works.

    Thank you for proving my point.

    You can put me under any government, and I can understand how it works backwards and forwards, and I still will not support the killing of hundreds of thousands of civilians, no matter how "pragmatic" it might appear. The idea that I should is a specific moral framework.

    How can I get a fish to understand water?

    You are trying to derive conclusions of what I ought to do purely by describing what is. That runs into the is-ought problem, and you cannot bridge that gap without making moral assumptions. If my position of putting principles before apparent pragmatism is a moral belief, then your position of putting apparent pragmatism before principles is also a moral belief. Isn't that just obvious?

    Do you know why we all know this is how it works? The GOP did it 15 years ago. Right leaning voters showed up consistently, and so they dragged the GOP to the right.

    The right is far more willing to say "my way or the highway" than anyone on the left, myself included. There's no shortage of people who will break with the party if they don't take a strong enough position on issues like abortion or gun control.

    And, by the way, if you go into conservative circles and demand people give up their convictions and vote for moderate Republicans as the lesser-evil, you will generally get a negative response. The kind of rhetoric you use would be a good way to start a fight at the poker table, to disrespect people's moral, political, possibly even religious convictions, that shit doesn't fly in those circles, from what I've seen.

    The difference is that the party has chosen to be responsive to their demands. The reason right-wingers don't break with the party is because the party gives them everything they want. If you actually wanted to learn from their success, you would be trying to get the party to respond to the left's demands rather than trying to get the left to abandon our demands.

    Donald Trump himself threatened to run as a third party candidate in 2016 if he did not get the nomination. Did you forget that? Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders bent the knee and actively campaigned for Clinton. Which of those strategies worked? Which of those factions wields more strength today?

    Every time one of you talks about "primaries" you've already lost. First, we didn't even have a real primary in the last election, second, the DNC has argued in court (successfully!) that primary elections do not have to be free and fair because they are a private organization, third, any criticism you might make of "one party states" contradicts that because those single parties have primaries. The CCP has primaries, I somehow doubt that you'd tell a dissatisfied Chinese person to sit down and shut up because if they don't like the party they can change it by trusting the process.

    You are the reason the DNC you complain about sucks.

    No, you are. Because you fail to hold them accountable in any way. Because you let them get away with mass murder knowing that people on the left will fall in line regardless.

    ...is what I'd say if you were anywhere remotely near the left. I don't understand what problem you even have with the Democrats. You agree with and justify their mass murder. Are you just taking a more critical position rhetorically to try to appeal to me?

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  • [–] 0 points 4 days ago (13 children)

    The right is far more willing to say “my way or the highway” than anyone on the left,

    This is patently false. There's even a saying:

    "Democrats fall in love. Republicans fall in line."

    Nothing else you said was really worth responding to because of this fundamental misunderstanding. You simply don't know what's happening in reality.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 days ago* (12 children)

    Oh, there's even a saying! Well if there's a saying, surely it must be true! Wow, you really proved how delusional and out of touch with reality I am! How could I possibly disagree with a saying?

    What a joke. The saying exists because liberals like saying it. Liberals like saying it, because liberals love telling people to fall in line. That's the whole purpose of that saying and the reason for it's existence. And that saying existing just further demonstrates my point that liberals are far more willing to demand that people abandon all their moral convictions, compared to the right.

    I swear, you really need to learn how to think critically. Before accepting an idea, actively try to find ways it could be wrong, and do the same for ideas you've already accepted. Did you ever see actual evidence accompanying that saying? Did you ever think to look?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago (11 children)

    This wasn't much of an argument. I think you need to calm down. Support your thesis with examples, explain them, draw conclusions, etc. You sound hysterical and condescending at the same time, which is an interesting juxtaposition.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago* (10 children)

    I told you about the most traumatic thing I'd ever experienced, and you responded that it was "funny" and then went on try to to justify the killing of hundreds of thousands of people. I assumed you were trying to provoke me. Responding to that with "hysteria" and condescension seems completely reasonable. I would respond the same way to someone justifying other atrocities, if for example you tried to justify the Holocaust, you would see the same "juxtaposition" of me being "consecending and hysterical."

    Also, I did support my thesis with examples and made rational arguments.

    Donald Trump himself threatened to run as a third party candidate in 2016 if he did not get the nomination. Did you forget that? Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders bent the knee and actively campaigned for Clinton. Which of those strategies worked? Which of those factions wields more strength today?

    Is this not exactly what you asked for? "Support my thesis with examples?" Are those not examples? Do they not support my thesis? Your only response to those actual, physical examples was to cite a saying, with nothing to back it up except that people say it, except that it is "conventional wisdom." Maybe you should take your own advice and support your thesis with evidence.

    But really, we couldn't, and can't, even begin to get into the nitty gritty because of your stubborn refusal to accept that lesser evilism is a specific belief and moral framework, even as I demonstrated logically that it was. If you won't even allow your beliefs to be defined and identified, then how on earth could we even begin to examine them critically? Before we can really get into examining whether it's correct or valid, we have to be able to define it clearly and state what it is. So, my arguments were focused on doing that, and I did so quite logically, bringing up for example the is-ought problem. What am I supposed to do when you respond to my arguments like the "that's not my wallet" meme?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago* (9 children)

    Trump threatening to run as a third party is irrelevant, because he didn't. He won the nomination. Every tea party chud who dragged the Republicans to the far right did so by winning the Republican nomination, often in noncompetitive districts. This is what DSA and other leftist candidates need to do, and in some cases have done already.

    Lesser evilism isn't a philosophy or belief or moral framework. It's a strategy. It's the proven strategy that works. It is the only proven strategy that works because of systemic flaws in our democracy. Do it.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (8 children)

    Trump threatening to run as a third party is irrelevant, because he didn’t.

    Nonsense. The Republican establishment didn't want him to be the nominee, and they could have pulled off bullshit to stop him from being the nominee if they really wanted to, because primaries are not legally required to be free and fair. But, if they had done so, and Trump ran as a third party candidate, then they would have lost. Of course, there's also the fact that many of his supporters were/are passionate and armed, and if they had screwed him over too blatantly, there's no telling what could've happened. So the party establishment bent the knee and acquiested to what their base wanted. Because if they hadn't, Trump very well could've run as an independent and split the vote, at the very least.

    As I said, the reason you don't see Republicans defecting from their party is because the party is responsive to their demands, because the base has already established a credible threat of defection. We can look further back to the last major third party candidate, who also split the right's vote and gave Bill Clinton the win.

    I grew up around these people, in a conservative family in a red state. I understand how they think much better than some "saying" that liberals tell each other about people they've never met. They draw all sorts of red lines, and they're crazy enough to mean them.

    When someone says, "You can pry my guns from my cold dead hands," they're not likely to fall in line behind a moderate Republican who supports gun control as a "lesser evil" or "the best we can do." It's "give me what I want, or else." My mother, a Catholic, is passionately opposed to abortion, claiming that it's the same as murder and that it's worse than the Holocaust in terms of lives lost. When I pointed out the various ways that Trump is a scumbag, she replied, exasperated, "And what am I supposed to do, vote for Clinton, who supports abortion?" I can promise you, if Trump had run third party, and the Republicans had for some reason nominated someone pro-choice, she would've followed Trump and voted third party.

    A substantial number of these people believe that heaven and hell are literally real and that, as long as they stand by the right principles, whatever happens on earth, win or lose, doesn't even matter, because they will be eternally rewarded for being on the right side. The right is full of uncompromising fanatics who constantly make demands of their party and who cannot be reasoned with at all, and the party by now knows better than to try and call their bluff.

    And it is precisely because of this that they have been so successful! Because the "strategy" of lesser evilism is so stupid, even if they wind up rejecting it for the wrong reasons, not understanding why it's stupid, they still wind up winning.

    The problem is, the left has always been extremely compliant historically, bending the knee and falling in line very consistently, going back generations, and now when we say that something is an absolute moral red line, the Democratic party thinks we're bluffing and that we'll just fall in line like always. Which is exactly why it's absolutely essential to prove to them that we are not.

    I mean, look at you, still saying "Do it." As if there was any possibility of that! If you insist on doing it the hard way, thinking that we're bluffing, then we'll just have to see how many elections it takes for you to understand our commitment. Honestly, I don't care whether you agree with me or not, so long as you understand that I have no intention whatsoever of flinching in this game of chicken. Because, once you understand that, no matter how "unreasonable" you think I'm being, your only option to get my vote is to get the party to respect my red lines. Funny how that works, isn't it?

    It’s the proven strategy that works.

    Ha! Is this what you call, "working?"

    Even when your so-called "lesser evil" candidates win, they don't do shit to address any real problems. As mentioned, Obama continued a pointless war of aggression that got hundreds of thousands killed and accomplished nothing. Joe Biden raised military spending to record highs. Neither of them did anything close to what's necessary to address climate change, or wealth inequality, or any number of other crises. Biden had four years to give voters a reason to reject Trump, and he failed. These "lesser evil" candidates can't even consistently win against a dogshit opponent and when they do win, they fuck up or do nothing, things keep getting worse regardless, and the worse things get the more prone people are to turn to the far right, because they're the only ones presenting any kind of alternative to the status quo.

    Lesser evilism has been proven not to work, which make sense, because it's also a completely illogical even in theory.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago* (7 children)

    So your argument is that Trump could have sabotaged the GOP and decreased the power of The Right, therefore someone like Bernie should sabotage the DNC and decrease the power of The Left? Great idea, genius. That's how we slide further into fascism.

    Yes, winning elections and passing progressive legislation is my idea of "working." We've done it before. We should continue instead of pissing our collective pants because it isn't working as fast as you want it to. I see you: you're an accelerationist. You want the pain of revolution because you are too comfortable and entitled, and don't understand what real upheaval feels like. Every accelerationist thinks they will be on the winning side.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (6 children)

    So your argument is that Trump could have sabotaged the GOP and decreased the power of The Right, therefore someone like Bernie should sabotage the DNC and decrease the power of The Left?

    Are you stupid? My argument is not "Trump could have sabotaged the GOP therefore we should sabotage the DNC." It's that the right used a credible threat of defection to advance their policy goals, and that the same tactic can and will work for the left. Making that threat did not decrease the power of the Republican party, because the party flinched. Rather, it increased the power of that faction within the party, because the party flinched. And the party flinched because it considered the threat to be credible.

    Why do we punish murderers? It costs us money to do it, and it doesn't bring their victims back to life. But, the punishment establishes a credible threat to other would-be murderers. Likewise, if a political party engages in mass murder, if it ignores and spits on our demands then, even if it comes at a cost, the party must be punished. For the exact same reason. In order to establish that when they fuck with us (and also slaughter hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians), they lose. The same way society establishes that if you murder people, you go to prison.

    Threatening the Democratic party by saying that you won't vote or will vote third party, if they engage in mass murder, only weakens the party if the party chooses to ignore that threat and engage in mass murder anyway. And if they do so, and you follow through, then you have made progress towards making your threat more credible for next time. Even if it leads to a worse result in the short term, it's completely necessary, because we will be completely and absolutely fucked if we aren't able to establish any credible threat, even in the most extreme cases of mass murder.

    I see you: you’re an accelerationist.

    I swear to God. I explain my position very clearly, and you completely ignore every single thing I say and invent motives to assign to me out of thin air, completely unrelated to anything I say. Just pulling shit straight out of your ass and trying to put it in my mouth.

    You want the pain of revolution because you are too comfortable and entitled, and don’t understand what real upheaval feels like. Every accelerationist thinks they will be on the winning side.

    Completely wrong. If I thought that way, why would I even care? Both parties will ensure that the US is headed towards collapse. I don't really know which one would get us there faster tbh. And it's obvious that the right is much better positioned to take advantage of that collapse. Even if the left emerged on top, by some miracle, it would cause enormous amounts of destruction and would carry a serious risk of nuclear armeggedon. I am certainly not in any hurry to "accelerate" towards that future.

    "Accelerationism" is a right wing ideology that virtually no one believes. It's just a meme liberals use to dismiss anyone to their left.

    because it isn’t working as fast as you want it to

    This is the part that you don't understand. It is not that it's "progressing to slowly," it's that it's not progressing at all. Both parties are regressive, both actively contribute to the decline whenever they're in power.

    Joe Biden did not "decrease military spending less than I would want him to." He increased it to an all time high. Obama did not "withdraw from Afghanistan more slowly than I would've preferred," he doubled down and increased the commitment!

    You are the accelerationist, because shit like Afghanistan (which you support), we cannot afford. These commitments, even if they weren't bloody, imperialist acts of aggression that accomplish nothing, are causing overextension and a debt crisis, which is leading us towards collapse. I am the one demanding the policies that are necessary to actually pull ourselves out of these crises and fix things, to avoid that collapse! The situation we're in is not sustainable, and you're taking a strategy that depends on being able to sustain it forever!

    Why do I even bother trying to get you people to see reason? All you ever do is make up bullshit accusations based on nothing, whenever your ideas are challenged or scrutinized.

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  • [–] 0 points 23 hours ago (5 children)

    It sure seems like over the last 60+ years, things have progressed, albeit slowly, with Democrats in charge, and regressed when Republicans were in charge. You can draw a line from abolition to women's suffrage to civil rights to gay marriage that all lines up with Democrats. The long arc of history Dr. King spoke about seemed to bend in the right direction under Democrats. Yet here you are denying history. Odd.

    (By odd I mean delusional.)

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  • [–] 0 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (4 children)

    It sure seems like over the last 60+ years, things have progressed, albeit slowly, with Democrats in charge, and regressed when Republicans were in charge. You can draw a line from abolition to women’s suffrage to civil rights to gay marriage that all lines up with Democrats.

    And what about the war in Afghanistan? What about the Patriot Act? What about the total removal of our civil liberties with complete bipartisan consensus? What about the fact that Barack Obama maintained that the US has the right to attack any country on earth if it thinks it's harboring terrorists? What about Guantanamo Bay and the policy of indefinite detention without charge or trial? What about ICE?

    When I was growing up in the 90's, the military budget was still inflated, but nowhere near what it is now. The country was at peace (relatively). There were no masked men raiding workplaces and dragging immigrants away to camps. The idea that the government could see your data was a paranoid conspiracy theory instead of an accepted fact of life. Due process was far from perfect, but couldn't just be ignored by the government using the word "terrorist."

    I don't know how old you are, so maybe you're too young to remember a time when rights existed, but you can't convince me we haven't regressed because I was there and I watched it happen, and it was absolutely a bipartisan effort. The Democrats refuse to commit to abolishing ICE, they have always supported the so-called "emergency measures" of the Patriot Act, they support keeping the military budget at an outrageous size, greater than the next 9 countries combined. And you ignore all those facts. Which one of us is "denying history?" Which one of us is "delusional?"

    Maybe if you go all the way back to 60 years or more, you can find some progress. Over the last 30 years, what I've actually experienced and seen firsthand, things have absolutely regressed, and they continue getting worse no matter who's in charge.

    The long arc of history Dr. King spoke about seemed to bend in the right direction under Democrats.

    The long arc of history will see Democrats bend to the left or it will see them break and be replaced.

    The only reason you have a problem with me is because you know that the Democrats stand against progress. Because you know that they will resist my demand to not kill hundreds of thousands of people. If you thought they wouldn't commit mass murder, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

    Frankly, even if they did make progress happen domestically, which they don't, then I would still oppose them because I am not so selfish as to vote for someone who commits mass murder abroad just because they share the plunder with me.

    Like, what is gay marriage next to hundreds of thousands of dead civilians? It's nothing. How many dead Afghans were gay? How many immigrants rounded up by ICE were gay? If we don't have the right to not get murdered or locked up by the government for no fucking reason, then we have no rights at all.

    I am queer, but I have absolutely no interest in some vision of pinkwashed imperialism. We don't need "more gay drone pilots." My red line is a red line, end of story. Stop committing mass murder or I will always regard you as my enemy.

    I would encourage you to actually read Dr. King, btw. He understood the fact that none of us are free until all of us are free, a fact you seem to be struggling with.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 hours ago (3 children)

    And what about the war in Afghanistan?

    The electorate gave Republicans power.

    What about the Patriot Act?

    The electorate gave Republicans power.

    What about the total removal of our civil liberties with complete bipartisan consensus?

    You'll have to be more specific.

    What about the fact that Barack Obama maintained that the US has the right to attack any country on earth if it thinks it’s harboring terrorists?

    Seems reasonable provided those terrorists are actively targeting the US or its allies. It's also the kind of thing you must say as POTUS even if you have no intention of utilizing the option.

    What about Guantanamo Bay and the policy of indefinite detention without charge or trial?

    The electorate gave Republicans power.

    What about ICE?

    The electorate gave Republicans power.

    When I was growing up in the 90’s, the military budget was still inflated, but nowhere near what it is now.

    The electorate gave Republicans power.

    The country was at peace (relatively).

    The electorate gave Republicans power.

    There were no masked men raiding workplaces and dragging immigrants away to camps.

    The electorate gave Republicans power.

    The idea that the government could see your data was a paranoid conspiracy theory instead of an accepted fact of life.

    Technology advanced, and the electorate gave Republicans power.

    Due process was far from perfect, but couldn’t just be ignored by the government using the word “terrorist.”

    The electorate gave Republicans power.

    I don’t know how old you are,

    Approaching 40 faster than I'd like.

    so maybe you’re too young to remember a time when rights existed, but you can’t convince me we haven’t regressed because I was there and I watched it happen,

    The electorate gave Republicans power.

    and it was absolutely a bipartisan effort.

    It was 90% Republicans, whom you wish to empower, and 10% Democrats, who did all those good things I mentioned earlier, but you don't want to reward them for doing the right thing 90% of the time even though the alternative is a party that does evil 100% of the time.

    Maybe if you go all the way back to 60 years or more, you can find some progress.

    I can find progress in the last 20 years. Gay rights, the end of Don't Ask Don't Tell, reforms in the healthcare industry, ... why am I bothering?

    Over the last 30 years, what I’ve actually experienced and seen firsthand, things have absolutely regressed,

    The electorate gave Republicans power.

    and they continue getting worse no matter who’s in charge.

    Things were getting better under Clinton, Obama, and Biden, especially during their brief periods where Democrats had control of both chambers of Congress alongside the White House. Unfortunately, for much of the last 40 years, the electorate gave Republicans power.

    I would encourage you to actually read Dr. King, btw.

    I have. Have you? Let me quote Dr. King for you:

    The Negro has been betrayed by both the Democratic and Republican Party. The Democrats have betrayed us by capitulating to the whims and caprices of the southern dixiecrats. The Republicans have betrayed us by capitulating to the blatent hypocrisy of conservative right wing northerners. This coalition of southern dixiecrats and right wing northern Republicans defeats every move toward liberal legislation in Congress. So we confront the problem of choosing the lesser of two evils. At this point I might say however, that I feel that the Negro must remain an independent voter, not becoming unduly tied to either party. He should seek to vote for the party which is more concerned with the welfare of all the people.

    Dr. King understood strategic voting for the lesser of two evils and espoused its virtues. Perhaps you should read Dr. King more rigorously and actually learn form it.

    He understood the fact that none of us are free until all of us are free, a fact you seem to be struggling with.

    He understood electoral realities. A fact you seem to be struggling with.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (2 children)

    Not a single one of those things was "because the electorate gave Republicans power." Literally every single one of those examples is something Democrats also fully supported, which is why I brought them up.

    Seems reasonable provided those terrorists are actively targeting the US or its allies. It’s also the kind of thing you must say as POTUS even if you have no intention of utilizing the option.

    You really are an imperialist through and through, huh? You think your empire has sovereignty over the entire world.

    Approaching 40 faster than I’d like.

    Then you have no excuse.

    It was 90% Republicans, whom you wish to empower, and 10% Democrats, who did all those good things I mentioned earlier, but you don’t want to reward them for doing the right thing 90% of the time even though the alternative is a party that does evil 100% of the time.

    Nope. As I said, they both did every single thing I mentioned. Every single one.

    Only someone like you, who has zero problem with invading a sovereign country in an unprovoked act of aggression, occupying it for two decades, killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, who maintains that the US has jurisdiction over the entire globe, whose only problem with the Republicans is that they aren't doing fascism competently enough, could possibly think that the Democrats "do the right thing 90% of the time." Completely and utterly delusional. Or should I say, completely and utterly depraved? I suppose from your perspective as a fascist, maybe they do do what you think is right 90% of the time. But, since I am not a fascist, from my perspective they do the right thing virtually never.

    This, of course, you will never understand. Because you refuse to examine your own ideas and values, you cannot understand how anyone could hold different ones. At the same time, you are completely ignorant of history, even the parts that you lived through, not even knowing that the Democrats supported every single issue I mentioned.

    If you've gotten this far in your life without learning to think critically or pay attention or even just to not be a bloodthirsty, warmongering imperialist, then what are the odds you'll start thinking now?

    You should be happy, you have two major parties that both support your desire to kill foreigners. You have everything you could possibly desire, no matter who wins. I know, you might be worried that the Republicans aren't as competent so they might not kill as many innocent foreigners as you like, but think about my perspective. I don't want to kill foreigners at all, and I don't have virtually anyone in government who represents that view at all. And yeah, I know, it drives you up the wall that anyone in the entire country, no matter how small their voice, could ever disagree with your crazed desire for mass murder, but like, have you tried meditation or therapy? Or perhaps digging up photos of dead Afghans to jerk off to, you know, relive the good ol' days when your favorite imperialists were conquering and subjugating the lesser races?

    In any case, you efforts are completely wasted talking to me, because I do not share your sick and twisted desires or values. You might as well try to convince people on Truth Social, because they're closer to you ideologically than I am.

    Historically, there were people in the US who believed that individual native people could be "saved" and "civilized," so long as their cultures were utterly destroyed by force, slaughtering all those who resisted. And there were those who believed that they were just inherently lesser, so the only thing to do was to kill them all. Today, nothing much has changed, the same political divide exists in the two parties, only that your kind got tired of killing natives and moved on to Middle Easterners. And if you had your way, there would be as few left of them as there are indigenous people. Only one of us has broken with that ideological tradition of genocide. Take you back a few hundred years ago and you'd be slaughtering Native Americans, all the while congratulating yourself on how "progressive" you are for "civilizing" the survivors. The far right has been right there alongside you the whole time, you just have a few minor disagreements about what to do after the slaughter. I stand for something entirely different, entirely alien to you, because I oppose the slaughter and your white supremacist "civilizing mission" altogether.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 hours ago (1 child)

    Not a single one of those things was “because the electorate gave Republicans power.”

    ROFLMFAO. Not a single one? Sure, bud.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 hours ago*

    Both Republicans and Democrats supported every single one of those things. You can deny reality all you want, you're just factually wrong.

    No wonder you support the Democrats when you're so ignorant of basic facts.

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