11
NAziTO doing Nazi things LMBO (europe.pub)
submitted 4 days ago by to c/memes@lemmy.ml
30 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 2 points 2 days ago* (5 children)

We are going towards a multipolar world order and Europe knows it. There is no going back and this is not just theatrics. The "defense spending" in reality is buying independence from US vassalization. They are purposefully not buying American and laying the groundwork for another alliance where they are not subjugated.

Since I am not really getting anything for free here: No, this is still not a moral argument. The argument is that the capitalists of Europe will seek return on this investment. Trump going away, and who is to say he is, is not going to change this materially.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (4 children)

    with the extreme increase we're buying even more from the US even if it's a smaller percentage.
    Also you can't just quit.
    First, we don't produce certain stuff and many things, like the shitty F-35 and complicated systems come with a decade long contract for maintenance, upgrades, etc..
    Or you can end that so it's even more money pissed away.

    And I say you're simply wrong.
    We buy more because our US leaders demanded exactly that and the show will end, only after the damage is done.
    We wouldn't be buying weapons if we were so independent, we have no enemies.
    Europe is economically almost dead because of the US, even if we spend money wisely it may be too late.
    But that won't happen with VDL, Kallas or the other fanatic warmongering EU clowns.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

    And I say you're simply wrong

    I have no problem with that. Disagreeing about the analysis is okay. The reductionist dismissal that I was doing a moral argument, I could do without.

    I will not reject the possibility of your conjectured outcome either. However, I do find your analysis lacking on the part of Europe having no enemies. The nightmare scenario for the European elite is not solely Russian aggression, but getting tag teamed by both Russia and the US.

    The crux of the issue is this: The US is threatening explicit subjugation if we do not play ball, and increasing vassalization if we do. The contradiction/compromise of NATO is shifting. The US needs and demands more from its vassals, I agree, but the vassals are eyeing an opportunity to reposition themselves in the emerging new world order.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    There is no "Russian aggression".
    It is at best provoked reactions to US/UK/EU aggression.
    We could be friends with Russia, and could've been for a long time if not for the US/EU fascist and rabidly anti-communist and imperialistic attitude.
    That is the nightmare scenario for the US and one of the main reasons for the existence of NATO.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago (1 child)
  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

    Firstly, "we" are not friends with any of the capitalist states, at best circumstantial allies. Secondly, I agree on NATO's importance for the US, it is an interdependency after all.

    The capitalists are not under political control, we both know it's the other way around, so why would we expect them to subject their private wealth to financial discipline based on the strategic ambitions? They are not about to abolish capitalism, but strategically reposition themselves to maintain it.

    We are also talking about different groups within the capitalist class and different time frames. The military dependency will take more than a decade to change. The investment in US stocks is record high right now due to the current financial bubble, working as intended of course, vacuuming the world for surplus value.

    The contradiction remains unsolved and will increase when the bubble bursts, fascism rises yet even more and the US gets absolutely demolished by China due to the difference in long term planning and industrialisation.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent