381
EV Charging Doesn't Need to Be as Fast as Gas, Ionna CEO Says (www.thedrive.com)
submitted 6 days ago by to c/technology@lemmy.world
520 comments fedilink hide all child comments
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 11 points 4 days ago (12 children)

Most of the time, they don't need to be anywhere near as fast as gas (most, maybe even nearly all, people have or can have a way to charge at home). But there's lots of people that don't do long stops on their trips and just want to stop, fuel up, and go. The EV can be a bit slower, but anything over about 15 min is going to be a showstopper for alot of people.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • hideshow 12 child comments
    •
  • [–] 6 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    Many people don't enjoy having to regularily go to the fuel station, but they have to. You do not necessarily have to do that with EVs. Habits form around necessities.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 3 points 4 days ago (3 children)

    (most, maybe even nearly all, people have or can have a way to charge at home)

    What? Most people where?

    I live in a fairly rich European country, and EV chargers here practically don't exist. Almost everyone lives in apartment buildings. If you're lucky, yours will have 1 or 2 chargers in the underground parking lot or somewhere close by outside.

    It's even worse in Eastern and Southern Europe. Outside of North America, Europe, and China, EVs, as well as chargers for them, don't exist at all.

    Are those 'most people' you're talking about actually just <5% of human population that happen to live in North America or Western Europe, and happen to be wealthy enough to afford that?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (2 children)

    EV chargers need not be some special thing. Level 1 charging is more than sufficient for the vast majority of people. Can you find a regular outlet near where you park? Maybe with the help of an extension cord? Or maybe your complex could put outlets in.

    Arguably, EVs work even better for places that don't have infrastructure. Which is easier? Building a network of fuel stations (which need electricity) and keeping them supplied or putting in solar panels in people's villages? I'd argue the second is generally easier now and is overall better for society - electricity comes with so many benefits beyond just being able to charge your car.

    Then there's upcoming EVs, like what Aptera is working on. Those will be able to add significant amounts of range each day using just the solar panels on the roof. Now you've got a car that needs no infrastructure at all (but can use it, if it exists).

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (1 child)

    I really don't think charging EVs from regular outlets is at all realistic for the vast majority of people.

    Unless you live on the ground floor, you'd have to drag a long ass cable through one of your windows. One of my neighbours actually does that, but just imagine everybody doing it. Not to mention the grid would most likely be unable to handle the load.

    I've never seen public outlets, aside from USB ports in public transport, so I doubt it's a thing.

    Honestly sounds like a reasonable idea, and not just for EVs. The problem is that more and more countries are steadily moving away from public goods, so every building/complex would have to organize it individually.

    Arguably, EVs work even better for places that don't have infrastructure. Which is easier? Building a network of fuel stations (which need electricity) and keeping them supplied or putting in solar panels in people's villages?

    Absolutely, agreed. But keep in mind the fuel stations are already there, because most countries spent the last 150 years building them everywhere.

    It's an unfair comparison, of course, but it's also impossible to make a fair one. As it stands, pretty much all developed and a lot of developing countries are already well connected when it comes to gas stations. It's a lot cheaper and easier to keep them going, than it'd be to replace them all with EV equivalents.

    Then there's the question: does it really make sense to spend the next 50 years upgrading all that infrastructure? When, at least in Europe, public transport is already present everywhere and well developed?

    Would it not be a whole lot easier and cheaper to just get rid of fuel stations, and keep expanding public transport, which emits dozens of times less CO2 per passenger than cars do?

    Now, obviously, there are still uses for personal vehicles, even if public transport is great. It's not a question which one to focus on exclusively, but which one to propritize.

    Those will be able to add significant amounts of range each day using just the solar panels on the roof.

    If this can be done well, then yeah, infrastructure problem kind of solved. Then you'd just need to wait for people to upgrade their existing cars, and afterwards all that gas infrastructure is basically redundant.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 1 point 2 hours ago

    The grid can handle the load. There have been studies done on this and the increased load from going EVs will only be a slight increase over the increased electrical generation we have to do anyway. It's a gradual transition, not a thrown switch. The increased load can be easily accounted for. Remember that an EV charging off a regular outlet is basically the same load as a space heater and that's only when it's actually charging.

    Wiring charging outlets for people to charge at will require a bit of work, but this is pretty straightforward stuff. Apartments can dedicate parking spots for EV charging. They'd probably pick spots where its easy to run wire from existing power infrastructure. They'd then charge you for the electricity at a reasonable markup or at cost plus a reasonable additional monthly fee. The apartment complex makes a bit more money with a small investment and the tenants get cheaper transportation. For street parking, cities are already looking into adding EV charging to their existing light poles. Worst case, they have to upgrade the wiring. But they probably already have plenty of excess capacity because they switched to LEDs, lowering power consumption. Again, they charge you for the electricity you use at a reasonable markup. The city makes money to maintain the system plus maybe a bit extra and residents get to charge their EV.

    The transition from gasoline infrastructure to EV infrastructure won't be and can't be quick. There's just too many gas cars on the road. But all infrastructure wears out and has to be replaced. As demand for EV infrastructure grows, gasoline infrastructure will decline as it naturally wears out and isn't replaced. It's unlikely it will ever fully go away, but it could decline to a point where its rare. But that's decades away.

    Yes, public transport is indeed a greener solution. It's also entirely unfeasible for much of the US. Our cities are just too spread out for it to make much sense most places. For places with the density, it absolutely should be expanded. Even in Europe, people still live in the countryside, suburbs, small villages, etc. Public transit doesn't make sense everywhere, even there.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    I mostly agree but part of me thinks you can get away with below 80% charges to save time rather than being hung up on the time to reach that 80-100%. (shifting one's thinking like how EV roadtripping is currently about reaching the next charger rather than a 100% fill each stop)

    I say that because some gas vehicles like the two-door Bronco just have relatively poor range (in the 200's) due to smaller tanks and I've seen how long folks can wait in line for gas at Costco. (having also been in line)

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago

    Most of the DC fast charge specs are like 20-80% because that last 20% is usually much slower. Even with my home charging I don't typically charge to 100% because it's better for battery health not to. And yeah, alot of the planning apps don't assume you're going to be charging to 100% each time - they tell you what you need to charge to at each stop.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] -1 points 4 days ago (2 children)

    So many people will get gas then go in for snacks by the time you wait in line and get gas that's 20 minutes alone.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago

    That's why I figure 15 min, give or take, is low enough for it to not matter for most people. It's not alot more than what even a quick gas stop would be. And that's not some unobtainable thing. Tesla superchargers can already do it. Some Chinese brands are already at 10 minutes and pushing for <5 minutes.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 4 days ago

    I was arguing with my mum and she said it can take twenty minutes to recharge the car. I said, after driving for five hours don't you want to get out, stretch your legs and have a coffee? That's half an hour easy.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent