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Why are people critical of democratic socialism? (lemmy.ml)
submitted 4 days ago by to c/socialism@lemmy.ml
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I am trying to understand as much as possible about socialism as well as other leftist ideologies, and looking around i’ve seen many being critical about democratic socialism, but i honestly struggle to understand why that is such a bad idea as some say. I get that it’s incompatible with ML, but it doesn’t sound so unrealistic and unreasonable to me, so… can you explain? Excuse the ignorance, but as i said socialism is a new topic for me, i mean no offense to anybody

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[–] -2 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Well, history until now has favored revolutions over electoral campaigns.

Can't say I agree with you there. The USSR collapsed, China had backpedalled into private enterprise, the revolutionary states that haven't collapsed have hardly brought about international communism.

the point is that it is imperative and inevitable that they need to consolidate their power or else no socialist project can outlast them.

Except "they" is going to include a lot of dark triad types. Consolidating power is only good if you can trust the people you've consolidated it in. Untrustworthy people are drawn to power, and they're willing to lie and plot to get it.

Socialism is by definition a transitional period between capitalism and communism

Socialism is by definition worker ownership of the means of production. If soviet workers didn't have democratic control over their production, it isn't socialism. They may have been aspiring towards it, and a noble attempt it was, but they drifted pretty far from the goal.

The whole point is to gradually transition into communism without disrupting citizens' livelihood

Which is why reform seems the obvious choice. Any revolution is going to bring chaos and suffering, as well as a potentially slippery power vacuum. What happens when your revolution successfully topples the government, the corporations, how do you coordinate production and distribution? I don't mean eventually, I get eventually, but day one after the revolution how is society going to work?

Even if you have the perfect theoretical system ready to go, you still have to implement it, and that takes time. That's a lot of disrupted livelihood.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    Your arguments rely on the sole premise that socialism was either not achieved or failed in the Soviet Union and China. But the historical facts prove otherwise.

    1. The Bolsheviks succeeded in their revolution and managed to establish a socialist state. The "collapse" of the USSR seventy years later is irrelevant and does not change this fact.

    2. Marxism-Leninism is realistic and not idealistic. It prioritizes the consolidation of the revolution and building socialism at home before getting drawn into volatile revolutions abroad.

    3. The soviet workers did have democratic control over their production. Not as individuals, but as a collective. This control was exerted through so-called Primary Party Organizations present in factories, farming collectives and neighbourhoods. Similarly, China has enterprise party branches which are crucial for management.

    4. China has shown the opposite of backpedaling into private enterprise. Since the start of this century, the state has been stricter in regulating non-public enterprises and directing them towards the social goals that are set up by the five year plans.

    All of these points can be fact checked and there is plenty of academic research done on them. I can recommend for starters Roland Boer's works.

    What happens when your revolution successfully topples the government, the corporations, how do you coordinate production and distribution?

    Just like other socialist states have done in the past and presently: you let the workers control and manage the existing factories, farms and enterprises according to what they seem fit; you organize them and provide them with enough training and education. There are plenty of lessons from history in that regards which one can learn from. I don't know why you seem to think this to be a difficult matter.

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