this post was submitted on 07 Jun 2025
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[–] dhork@lemmy.world 42 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

There is an important and subtle distinction to be made here. A lot of noise is made calling people who are here without authorization "illegals", but that's not always true. Being present in the country without authorization is not automatically a criminal matter. It is true that many of the avenues for being here without authorization (crossing illegally, overstaying a visa) also violate the law, but that is handled as a separate matter.

Since immigration status is mostly a civil matter, ot a criminal one, these immigration courts are not under the Judicial Branch, like criminal courts are. They are actually "administrative courts" which are part of the Department of Justice, under the President, just like ICE is.

So while the courts occasionally provide a check on this Predident's power, the immigration courts never will. They ultimately report to the President through the DoJ, and the President has much more direct influence over it. So it doesn't surprise me that these people are stuck in a Kafkaesque hell, where ICE ignore their pleas that they are citizens and says "tell it to the judge", and when they finally get to the judge they get ignored.

Is it any wonder that Trump was so dead set against the immigration bill last year? He needed the process to stay chaotic, in order to have a better chance of winning.

[–] Vandals_handle@lemmy.world 19 points 1 week ago

Republican leadership has been calling non-citizens here legally under temporary protected status illegals as well. Same holds true for other asylum seekers that followed the legal process. Facts and laws that stand in opposition to their goals are ignored by the republicans in charge and their supporters.

[–] SapphironZA@sh.itjust.works 36 points 1 week ago (3 children)

It's getting to the point very soon that the only way you stop this, is armed community resistance.

No warrant, no entry. The only way you stop the abuse of power, is by confronting it with more power.

They are bullies, they are not brave.

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[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 31 points 1 week ago (4 children)

not if someone expects me to produce documents randomly on the sidewalk.

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[–] CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 27 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

This does beg the question in my mind: If a person is wrongfully determined to be an illegal immigrant despite only having US citizenship, and is actually deported to some country ICE convinces themselves that person is from rather than "deporting" them to some prison in an unrelated country like El Salvador, they would presumably be in that other country illegally at that point. Would they be liable to be deported back to the US in such a case, by the government of that country?

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 34 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The other country has to be willing to receive them. In this case, the US would probably not.

But countries like El Salvador are being paid by the US to take these people, so they don't really care about the facts, they just want the money.

[–] CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 14 points 1 week ago (1 children)

In that case, do countries usually just take other countries at their word that anyone accused of being an illegal immigrant from that place is actually from where theyre accused of being from, or does the US have to, if it is trying to deport someone somewhere with a reasonably functional government, give that country some kind of evidence that theyre sending them one of their citizens before they agree to take them? For that matter, what happens if a country just stuffs someone on a plane going to another country without the consent of the country in question?

[–] dhork@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago

Each country sets their own laws, so it's ultimately up to the destination country. When an ordinary citizen visits another country, they have to meet requirements for entry, but countries can negotiate any terms their government allows them to. So as long as the US government works out terms with the other country in aadvance, they can send anyone.

The US government does have an advantage other countries lack: we have military bases all over the world, including a lot of "shithole countries". There are separate agreements negotiated over the use of that land, but I bet that the US can send whoever they want there without declaring to fhe local authorities who they are. Then the US can "conveniently" lose track of them and.... poof! No more undesirables....

[–] silence7@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

Probably be stuck in customs for life.

[–] kruhmaster@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Man, I can't wait for them to try to grab someone with concealed carry.

[–] silence7@lemmy.world 14 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

They're wearing body armor. Dude with a concealed gun likely ends up dead, and ICE gets no charges because they were afraid.

[–] kruhmaster@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I don't see any Kevlar on their faces.

[–] silence7@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

Odds of shooting somebody in face when you are ambushed by a larger group of armed men are low.

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Kevlar isn't magic. For a pistol round, it might absorb a bunch of the energy, but it's still like getting kicked in the chest by a horse. And that's only for one. Or, if they're ceramic plates, they become much less effective after the first impact.

And that's for a pistol. Consider if they come to the wrong house and the person at the door has a shotgun.

[–] silence7@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago

The problem is that you're probably not lying in wait with a mythical concealed-carry shotgun. Realistic sequences that have happened in the recent past:

  • A couple guys wearing utility company uniforms ask to step inside to diagnose a problem. They then jump you and arrest you.
  • Your camera system stops working due to jamming. Then 15 armed men break through your door and surprise you while you're asleep in bed.
  • Several people in the crowd at your kid's graduation ceremony suddenly surround you and zip-tie your wrists before you realize what's going on.

You're going to be dealing with a situation where you don't see in advance what's happening, and where you're confronted with a whole batch of people who are heavily armed and wearing body armor. That's a situation where one individual acting alone is very unlikely to succeed in killing an assailant with a gun.

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[–] Hegar@fedia.io 12 points 1 week ago

Proving you're a citizen or not is irrelevant since ICE are not enforcing immigration law they're conducting an ethnic cleansing campaign.

[–] don@lemm.ee 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The number of blithely staunch fascists in that article’s comment section is nauseating.

[–] silence7@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago

Welcome to America

[–] AngrySquirrel@lemm.ee 8 points 1 week ago

Well, for me personally, all they would need to do is run my finger prints as my prints have been in the system since I was in highschool for employment background checks.

However, that would assume that the thugs were competent and acting in good faith, which they are not.

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