this post was submitted on 23 Jun 2026
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[–] AGM@lemmy.ca 5 points 5 days ago

I read the shooter's manifesto and didn't see the prevailing hatred as being directed towards women, as suggested in the Star article, but more as directed towards capitalism and who the shooter thought of as elites. There's definitely a distorted view of women in there, and the advocacy for violence is extreme, but the prevailing themes are surprisingly common in what you see in popular discourse: anger about inequality and anger about perceived injustice resulting from inequality. Attacking Mindgeek would have resulted from that ideology not because of hatred for women, but out of hatred of porn and the impacts of porn on men and on young people's relationships and intimacy as, which is the kind of thing you could read about in a broad spectrum of mainstream publications.

It's a weird read. Overall, it made me really sad. The pain and sense of rejection then turned into motivation for violence and calls to kill whole classes of people is quite chilling. It's disturbing. Most disturbing is probably that he wrote about grievances not just as justification for his own individual act of violence but calling for a mass movement that would be violent and, as he put it, "liquidate" whole groups of people as it took power. The grievances he focused on are also not so uncommon to see people feeling/expressing online, which is no doubt part of the danger of the ideology. I wouldn't share it with anyone vulnerable.

I wish that guy had experienced a better childhood or some influences that could have stopped him going down that spiral, but I'm glad he ended up as a lone shooter rather than part of something much bigger that he advocated for. The deaths he caused are already tragic, but a movement sharing that ideology would be a movement of mass murder. It's pretty awful.

[–] farmgineer@nord.pub 2 points 4 days ago

I don't think you can have this sort of incel without a sense of entitlement. Addressing entitlement, inequality, and mental health would go a long way, I think

[–] TimothyOilypants@lemmy.ca 2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

There are a multitude of social, legal, and economic policy changes that need to happen to make societies more resilient against this kind of culture war shit in the future. For extant populations the only way to de-radicalized them is with education, whether that's voluntary or otherwise.

I'm certainly going to get down voted to oblivion, but the Chinese model is worth looking at. No civilization in human history has provided a higher standard of living to a larger population of individuals.

I like the idea of a true secular humanist end state, but as populations explode, I think we need a system that can function and deliver value at scale first; then we can gradually expand technological and ideological infrastructure for more direct democratic decision making.

It strikes me that finding ways to expand ideological freedom and democratic participation in the Chinese model would be orders of magnitude easier than scaling something like the Nordic model to more than a billion people.

[–] ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 5 days ago (2 children)

I thought China had a huge population of folks without running water or electricity.

[–] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 0 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I looked into the electricity thing, apparently in 2014/2015 they reached essentially 99% coverage. They all have water but the issue is how clean the water is. Like 70% - 80% is questionable.

Don't get me wrong, China definitely has its problems.

[–] TimothyOilypants@lemmy.ca -1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

You're claiming that 80% of the Chinese population lacks access to clean water? You're gonna need to provide a source on that incredulous claim.

[–] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 0 points 5 days ago (1 children)
[–] TimothyOilypants@lemmy.ca -1 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Yet you can't provide a source...

[–] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

And yet you can't be bothered to take 2 seconds? I'm not asserting the percentages as absolute fact chill out.

The issue with water in China isn't that people don't have access to any, it's that some don't have access to clean water. And of course they're working on making it better.

[–] TimothyOilypants@lemmy.ca -1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Except I already know the claim is bullshit... Hence the challenge.

You're a propaganda bot.

[–] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago

Lol every accusation a confession tankie Mcgee. Another guy posted 3 linked sources you're ignoring. And let me guess, no matter what I post you're just going to say it's a fake source anyway. I'm sorry the great firewall blocks basic Google results for you.

[–] GardenGeek 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)
[–] TimothyOilypants@lemmy.ca -1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

So 1 actual study from 3 years ago, which concludes that the water specifically in Wuhan meets the countries safety standards and 2 unsourced travel blogs...

You are spreading propaganda in bad faith, as expected

Go away bot..

[–] GardenGeek 2 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Why are you asking for fact sources if you plan on igorning them anyway?

Nvm, why do I even ask...

[–] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago

Yup, you just can't win with these people. Yell for a source then downplay it when somebody posts one. It's funny cuz I was actually trying to defend China since they've gotten electricity to most of their country and it STILL wasn't good enough.

[–] TimothyOilypants@lemmy.ca -2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Because as expected, the sources don't support the initial claim...and you know that because you made your claim without any, then scrambled to try and find some that supported your presupposition.

Maybe you're just ignorant and stubborn, maybe you're a bad faith actor intentionally spreading misinformation; that's up for other people to decide.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Your bullshit doesn't just stand uncontested, it's not other people's responsibility to validate your lies.

[–] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

No, you just don't like the results so you have to attack them. Can you give ONE criticism of china? Or is it a perfect country with no flaws and anybody who disagrees is a paid bot??

These aren't extraordinary claims and you're not even trying to have a convo in good faith. It's funny you call everyone who disagrees with you ignorant and stubborn when you're the one without access to info thanks to the great firewall. But let me guess, that doesn't exist and tienemann square never happened and Taiwan isn't a county and Hong Kong needed to be liberated?

You're bullshit won't go uncontested either, better have someone ban us from this instance too so you can spout your propaganda bull shit in peace.

[–] TimothyOilypants@lemmy.ca -2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

I'm Canadian you fuckwit...

Your search term is literal confirmation bias presented by AI...

Did you not learn the scientific method wherever you were educated?

  1. Develop a hypothesis.
  2. Design experiments to disprove your hypothesis.
  3. IF you can't disprove your hypothesis with extensive peer reviewed experimentation, then it might be true.
  4. Rinse and repeat until you have overwhelming evidence disproving any other natural explanation.

The fact that you just played all the anti-China greatest hits demonstrates that you are predisposed to be critical of other cultures and will actively seek out information exclusively to confirm your bias... Grow up.

[–] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

I told you from the start I just Googled the info but you kept demanding sources. And if you're not Chinese it means you could've Googled the exact same thing but you just wanted me to do research for you and waste my time. And another poster gave you THREE linked sources and you just ignored them lmao!

You're a Canadian larping as a CCP propagandist? Weird hobby but sure. Still havent made any criticism of china btw.

[–] TimothyOilypants@lemmy.ca -2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

I have read all 3 of those sources AND Googled "what percentage of the population of China has access to safe drinking water" and NONE of the results agree with your claims... That's the point.

You're either lying, or too stupid to use the internet safely.

You're stuck in an echo chamber and you don't even realize it. I'm trying to fucking help you learn how to think for yourself and do REAL research and your only response is ad hominem attacks...

[–] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago

So your saying tapwater in china is safe to drink? That's really what you're trying to argue for this whole time?? Well I guess people believe the earth is flat so you can really believe whatever you want.

[–] TimothyOilypants@lemmy.ca 0 points 5 days ago

Why do you believe that?

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I like how the media is ignoring the fact he used a long gun, for which the registry was eliminated in Alberta under Harper and L'il PP. Quebec has a registry, but it's pointless when incels can just travel from Alberta, USA.

[–] ArmchairAce1944@lemmy.ca 4 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

The registry was eliminated federally and was so unpopular that only Quebec gave a damn and even then, less than 10 people prosecuted for not registering long guns.

Edit: also the media is not ignoring he used a rifle.

[–] EmilieEasie@fedinsfw.app 31 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (8 children)

It's really hard for me to wrap my head around why it's so easy for certain extremely online guys to hate women so much and so easily.

I encounter a little bit less of it on the fediverse but it's not immune either. Yesterday on lemmy someone posted something making fun of women who get plastic surgery, and pointing out that they were being kinda misogynist* got a lot of replies about how men are the real oppressed class and you can never make jokes about women and other incel bullshit. No where is immune.

[–] BCsven@lemmy.ca 6 points 6 days ago

You have a guy that has undesirable personality traits, instead of normal community peer pressure to correct his behaviour, he finds 100s or 1000s of other douchbags on line to support his victimhood of not finding a date.

[–] Malyca@lemmy.zip 2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

You're not getting laid, one guy tells you to self reflect and change for the better, accepting your flaws and overcoming them. The next guy tells you that women are evil and only date attractive, rich and tall guys. What's easier, self reflection or blaming women? They take the easier path. The more they do it, the more repulsive they become and they take that as evidence of the evil of women.

[–] EmilieEasie@fedinsfw.app 2 points 5 days ago

I guess it's easier than interrogating why you assumed in the first place you would get laid

[–] hanrahan@slrpnk.net 5 points 6 days ago

It's really hard for me to wrap my head around why it's so easy for certain extremely online guys to hate women so much and so easily

same reasons people hate on immigrants etc

easy to blame others for your own inadequacies. Many years ago I spent a little time in /r/mgtow and was eventually banned. I'd sub'd in good faith and naively assumeed it was about betterment, and while their was a little of that, mostly jist blaming women.

[–] ArmchairAce1944@lemmy.ca 2 points 6 days ago (2 children)

I know some Arab girls who said to me that the Middle East has plenty of women and girl haters, but one thing they noticed was that when Western guys hate women, they REALLY hate women to extents that even major misogynists in the Middle East won't touch.

[–] Auli@lemmy.ca 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I find that hard to believe. You mean a place where women have no rights can be beat with no penalties if they are raped it is their fault.

[–] EmilieEasie@fedinsfw.app 2 points 6 days ago

I find that really easy to believe actually. The level of vitriol makes a lot of sense in places where women have some power. Why bother where they are powerless?

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca -2 points 5 days ago (1 children)
[–] villasv@lemmy.ca 23 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

The gateway to hate is contempt, and the gateway to contempt is grievance, and grievance comes from externalizing blame for things not going the way you want and not having the character to deal with that properly.

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[–] sloppy_diffuser@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Supply and demand in dating social spaces, virtual or in person.

In person non-dating social interactions have been steadily declining.

When all the red pill shit first started coming out it was ironically more about self-improvement followed by pick up artist tacticts once you got your shit together.

Still misogynistic at the time and it just continues to get worse. Rather than put in the work to improve themselves, they'd rather go all handmaid's tale.

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[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 25 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (17 children)

Shortly before he launched his terror attack, the killer disseminated a manifesto to media. The essay is borderline unreadable: A hodgepodge of discordant economic and social politics, strung together by an intense hatred of women.

Sigh. Sounds like a worrying number of lemmy users.

The solution to this loneliness epidemic and all the downstream dangers that flow from it, is painfully simple: We need to break this internet addiction and get disaffected young men into physical, shared spaces again. The difficult part, the thing we haven’t yet figured out, is how we do that.

Unfortunately third spaces do not coexist well with any modern society, especially capitalism, and are quick becoming extinct. Especially post covid, making friends for anyone is extremely difficult - In a point against the incel philosophy, I'm a cute goth girl with big tits and I struggle to meet any new friends. It's just shockingly isolating to participate in society these days.

[–] Malyca@lemmy.zip 2 points 5 days ago

You and me both. Taking away socialization is the root cause of a lot of problems :(

[–] DagwoodIII@piefed.social 15 points 1 week ago

Civilian Conservation Corps. FDR era plan to hire young men and build infrastructure.

Invest money in rebuilding powerlines, roads, and bridges. Give people well paying blue collar jobs. Teach teamwork and mutual responsibility

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[–] marcela@lemmy.blahaj.zone 22 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Suggesting Jordan Peterson as someone who "earnestly tried to respond to the question".

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 1 points 5 days ago

“earnestly tried to respond to the question”.

ya got more Benzos?

[–] GrackleBirb@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (5 children)

Jordan "Benzobus" Peterson who undermined mental healthcare (even as a formerly licensed professional!) to tell young disaffected alienated men to "clean their rooms" and then who went on to espouse hack carnivore eating habits and then require benzodiazepine detox (we don't shame people for that but we do shame them for...) going to Russia to receive it (because naturally no one in Canada ever has been treated for this in the entire history of Canadian medicine) and then fleeing to the US because Canada is "too woke" - yeah fuck that asshole and stay in Arizona.

A lot of incel culture stems from online influence, feelings of alienation, and resentment towards women since many of them have learned about sexuality through pornography and expect that women in real life will acquiesce to that - this exposure coupled with manosphere "influencers" telling them that they need to "take back control over women" means many of them not only harbour hatred towards women for perceived or real previous rejection but now think "give me the p now bish I'm a man" is somehow even vaguely normal. They have built communities online around this and here we are.

I won't even touch the layer of low self-esteem theatre that is the "chad" vs "soy boy" nonsense and mewing, chin and face architecture, and other manifestations of body dysmorphia that they blame for their lack of connection to women - funny that they never consider their personality or views on equality but hey - I hope the Therapy Fairy visits all of them and brings a psych to give them the good drugs to move past this nonsense.

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[–] tezoatlipoca@mas.to 16 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

@grte

Gift link.. because: https://www.thestar.com/gift-redeem?t=63cb88b8-903a-45eb-a9cc-bfd70310f87b

(I pay to support the last Canadian-owned major media concern, Torstar)

I find it interesting that in response to a murder spree here we're already looking at how the system failed. In the US they'd be looking for who to pin the blame on. And thoughts and prayers.

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[–] ArmchairAce1944@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 week ago (7 children)

We still need to find fucking something. I hear tons of calls for gun control but no matter how many rammings or shootings or stabbings or other acts of violence do I hear an attempt at drawing young men (and men in general) away from this shit.

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