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[–] 74 points 4 weeks ago (11 children)

Sad but not unexpected. The EU doesn't do influence operations but its adversaries does. I will not be surprised when it comes out that both Russia and the US invested heavily in getting Iceland to vote no.

A shame that they didn't even want to talk, but at least Trump and Putin got their wish.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    The EU doesn’t do influence operations but its adversaries does

    THIS is very, very narrow plank to walk on...

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  • [+] -8 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

    The EU doesn't do influence operations but its adversaries does.

    It does.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

    I think you need more proof than a general hand-wave towards a wikipedia article where some european countries have done some bad things. There's no coordinated EU wide neocolonialism going on afaik. Feel free to prove me wrong.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    CTRL+F "fish" in the article, or you can google "EU fishing West Africa" for more details, but TL;DR: The EU has a number of fishing agreements signed with questionably/non-democratic West African governments, to the detriment of the local population who needs to fish to eat.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    Shure, but thats a different thing. The Argument wasnt about "evil" trade or military or demigration deals.

    It was about influence campaigns trying to change the voting behaviour of some population.

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  • [–] -3 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    I mean, the lack of necessity of trying to change the voting behavior (because you're dealing with a dictatorship/oligarchy that doesn't respond to popular opinion) isn't exactly a point for the EU here; getting caught up in the method is missing the forest for the trees. The point is that the EU isn't above forcing using its influence to force bad policy on foreign countries for its own gain, so when it loses the propaganda war with America/Russia it's not due to some moral standard. I absolutely count using its economic clout to force unequal trade deals on weaker countries as "influence operations;" what America and Russia do is just how you do that with democracies. There's also that one time it forced disastrous austerity on Greece. The fact that the EU doesn't have its own Murdoch isn't a testament to its moral integrity.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    I think youre fighting a strawman here, nobody said that the eu has moral integrity...

    That was never the question, the Mediterranean See ist the most deady border worldwide.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 weeks ago

    I mean, the parent commenter never explicitly said "the EU doesn't do influence operations due to its moral integrity," but that tends to be the subtext with comparisons like these. Maybe I'm just too paranoid.

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  • [–] 39 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

    I get the fear around the fishing industry, but regardless of Iceland's dependance on them we all need to stop eating fish. We're completely wrecking the ocean ecosystems - it's not sustainable.

    I'd love to have Iceland fully join us in the EU.

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  • [–] 31 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

    I read very interesting interview with a fisherman from Iceland. He said that he wanted to join the EU in the past but now it is „economic prison” and he doesn’t want to join it. To me - it really looks like we are loosing propaganda battle with huge empires spreading propaganda against the eu aggressively, without our response. No idea how to change that but I spent half of the morning thinking about it with no result. It really is not based on merit. Like most of politics nowadays. We have the highest standard of living, strong economy etc. Yes - we are getting weaker by sending shit tones of money to our adversaries for LNG which we literally just burn but we can counter that.

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  • [–] 26 points 4 weeks ago (7 children)

    Sad, but fair. Door is open if they change their mind

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    [–] 10 points 4 weeks ago (4 children)

    well of course the fishing industry us scared because they are disgusting whale murderers.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 4 weeks ago (3 children)

    From what I know, it's only one guy who still does that and most of the meat becomes dog food

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  • [–] 4 points 4 weeks ago*

    yes but the country is not only unable to stop him but its authorities are actively helping.

    This is an update from the Captain Paul Watson Foundation whose detained ship I saw in Reykjavik when I was there three weeks ago.

    5d ago

    BANDERO UPDATE!

    Five crew members have now been deported from Iceland following weeks of detention and immigration proceedings. They’ve been released thanks to your pressure and email so THANK YOU!

    One crew member, the Bandero’s chief engineer, remains detained.The vessel itself also remains seized and under the control of Icelandic authorities.

    On August 17, the Bandero was towed from Reykjavík to Akranes, where she remains today.For weeks, members of the crew faced uncertainty, detention and limited access to communication. In some cases, crew members waited approximately 48 hours before they were able to contact their families and confirm they were safe. Several have now returned home without their phones and other personal belongings, which remain in the possession of Icelandic authorities as part of the ongoing investigation.

    The Captain Paul Watson Foundation continues to work with legal counsel regarding the seizure of the Bandero, the treatment and detention of the crew, and the ongoing investigation.Our immediate priority is clear: we want our ship back.“Operation 86 was stopped before our work was finished. This is not the end of Operation 86.”— Jonny Velasquez

    The majority of the crew may now be home, but the Bandero remains seized, one crew member remains detained, and our mission remains unfinished.We will continue. Please send the new follow up email just created to keep the pressure and also support our work with a donation if you can to finance the legal operations!

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  • [–] 9 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    I expected them to vote as much. Iceland is a tiny country that relies mainly on fishing. And it’s not like the smaller mainland European nations, who heavily rely on their larger neighbors for trade and defense.

    The vote also seems to have been prompted by fears of US aggression. Iceland is already in NATO so (on paper) it benefits from collective defense. Joining the EU might cement defense commitments by mainland countries, but Iceland will still need to invest heavily in national defense for that to realistically protect them from a belligerent America.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago

    but Iceland will still need to invest heavily in national defense to realistically protect them from a belligerent America.

    To me this just doesn't seem feasible for a country like Iceland. Imo there is a threshold that needs to be reached before any level of protection is achieved and imo Taiwan is basically the only small country that managed to reach this point. But what it took to get there is being the linchpin for the most important global industry.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    It's pretty stupid to not even look at the offer EU would make

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago

    Yeah, not even looking at the offer seems stupid. Unless maybe you think that it leads to consequences before you get the chance to voice your opinion again. I'm not sure how it was communicated in the lead up to this referendum, at what stage in the process the next one would be.

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