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[–] 12 points 20 hours ago (3 children)

It depends on what you're doing. I deal with lots of data entry and when there are corrections to be made, I had to scour through troves of information which could also cause data entry error when i am going through with it. In other words, it's "secretary work". AI had been helpful on that front to minimise the tedious work that does not add value or improve productivity.

AI is only good at secretary work. But for tasks that require critical thinking and analysis and creativity, don't rely on AI.

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  • [–] 6 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

    Man getting people to listen to me when I essentially talk about the same thing you brought up is impossible. It is great for these kinds of things but I just get shouted down by all of the "AI bad no matter what" people.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 hours ago*

    For something that uses immeasurable amounts of stolen data to be trained on and function, without credit or compensation, and breaks so many laws I can't list them, I think it's pretty unethical to use. Or something that burns immeasurable amounts of potable water and electricity to function at all, I think its pretty unethical. For something that artificially generates scarcity for chips we desperately need, I think it's unethical. For something that authoritarian governments are lapping up as a form of propaganda, disinformation, misinformation, surveillance, I think its pretty damn unethical. All so people can write an email 10 seconds faster, in a tone that's not yours, to be sent to a AI to answer that email. For the people who say "I think it can be used for good" or "it's just a tool!" What kind of tool sacrifices so much of which we take for granted? Are these things not important to you? Look at that list again! Fuck, look around, your silly chatbot is not changing the world in the way you want. Maybe you get some minor benefit from your chatbot, but the world shifts further to a dystopian shithole for your marginal gains.

    Say you're in the desert and miraculously you found a glass of water, but it is filled with shit particles. Ya, it's a glass of water, but it's filled with shit. And you're out here thinking to yourself "hmm, there's water here, and I can drink it. So what if it's filled with shit? I can use it." #fuckai

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  • [–] 3 points 16 hours ago

    I've come to realisation that since many Lemmy users are IT workers, they feel resentful in training AI to replace them. Many had been laid off after all since the (irrational exuberant) coming of AI. That's why I don't begrudge many Lemmings hating AI as something that could never do anything good. I'm lucky enough that my work isn't going to be replaced by AI. But for how long?

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  • [–] 14 points 1 day ago* (2 children)

    Also, correlation does not equal causation. So the title is attributing AI to eroding your ability to persist, when in reality there was no prior test to ensure the individual could do the task at all. Which is almost like what they're proving is that AI gives people the ability to do things they otherwise would not be able to do with out it.

    Giving someone a tool to start and then taking the tool away mid task isn't a good way to study the impact of the tool.

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  • [–] 2 points 20 hours ago

    when in reality there was no prior test to ensure the individual could do the task at all

    Why would such a test be needed? I presume the researchers did the reasonable thing and assigned the participants to the two groups randomly.

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    [–] 14 points 1 day ago* (1 child)

    I don't use LLMs (especially now during nosloptober), but I'm also trying to apply this to web searching. Like instead of doing a search for "how many minutes in a month" I'll realise I have all the tools and information to figure it out and just do that.

    Or checking with a local manual before searching online

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  • [–] 4 points 21 hours ago

    I remember the times before search engines. I used to have to wait for the weekends and walk 40 minutes to the library to look stuff up if I had questions. I remember how I even though encyclopedia britannica being available online was revolutionary and I spent hours reading just because I finally had access from home. It felt like it wouldn't always be there, so I tried to read as much as possible so I would just know stuff. I'm kinda nostalgic for it and where I live now, the library is only a few blocks away. You've inspired me to try to recreate that a bit.

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  • [–] 6 points 21 hours ago

    Surely if I offload work tasks onto someone else then I would achieve the same effect? I don't think this is AI exclusive.

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  • [–] 2 points 18 hours ago

    This study actually measured the impact of knowing that your job could be much easier on performance.

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  • [–] 271 points 1 day ago (32 children)

    This article is a perfect example of how legitimate research gets turned into sensationalist nonsense, and the post on Lemmy is making it worse.

    The study involved 1,222 participants across three experiments. Researchers had people use AI to help with math and reading comprehension, then tested them when that assistance was removed. They found that participants were more likely to struggle with accuracy and persistence when they had to work independently.

    That's an interesting finding. It's worth discussing.

    But this whole fixation on "just 10 minutes" is ridiculous. Ten minutes of AI use under specific experimental conditions does not mean that ten minutes of ChatGPT permanently damages your brain or destroys your ability to think for yourself. The study did not demonstrate that.

    There's a pretty significant difference between showing that people can become reliant on assistance and struggle when that assistance is suddenly taken away, and claiming that AI use fundamentally erodes your cognitive abilities. One is an experimental finding. The other is an exaggeration of what that finding actually means.

    And this is where I have a problem with the article and the way it's being presented on Lemmy. The actual research is interesting enough without having to dress it up in sensationalist headlines. If the point is that people need to struggle with difficult problems to develop their skills, then make that argument. It's a perfectly reasonable one.

    But "using AI for 10 minutes erodes your ability to persist at hard things" is a hell of a lot more dramatic than what the research actually establishes.

    There's a difference between reporting scientific findings and manufacturing a narrative around them. We should be capable of discussing the potential downsides of AI without resorting to clickbait and misrepresenting what the research actually says.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 day ago

    Thank you! This makes me think maybe our brains reward themselves for finding easier ways to do something and LLMs become just that sometimes. But at the same time atrophying our existing skill. We need brain gyms like we do physical gyms.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

    Forgive me, but i’m not understanding why you find the headline to sensationalize or over state the actual findings of the study. The abstract of the paper directly says:

    we provide causal evidence for two key consequences of AI assistance: reduced persistence and impairment of unassisted performance.

    I’m struggling to discern a meaningful difference between “erodes your ability to persist at hard things” and “reduced persistence of unassisted performance”. Forgive me for not understanding but I would appreciate your explanation. The paper's very own conclusion actually uses the term erosion:

    Here, we show that AI interaction can result in significant impairments in independent performance and persistence – capacities that are foundational to life-long learning. If brief exposure produces measurable erosion, the cumulative effects of daily AI use over months or years may be profound and difficult to reverse

    I found a definition of erosion: "the gradual loss of something as a result of an ongoing process". Trust can erode and be rebuilt; soil can erode and be restored.

    I agree that 10 mins of foundation model assistance likely doesn’t “permanently damage your brain or destroy your ability to think for yourself”. However, in my reading of the Berkeley news piece, I find no claim of this specific kind. Does the text of the press release explicitly claim the duration of effect is long-term or lasting? Does it explicitly claim the the erosion is permanent? Again, I find myself confused what you are arguing against.

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    [–] 7 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    You're offloading your thought to an LLM there is no way you don't come out a bit dumber.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 day ago

    I've been using LLMs with a project that I simply don't have enough time for. I've built the core of it during most of last year. And in the past 6 months or so I've been using LLMs to help me out with some of the more tedious stuff. Half the time it doesn't quite get it right, and some of that time it's just flat out wrong. It's usually when I get the LLM to try to hunt down some bug or something. After a couple tries, I give up on the LLM and figure out the problem myself.

    I genuinely don't believe this "offloading your thoughts to an LLM" idea is universal. For someone still in school and learning? Probably 100% true. But for someone established in a skill, I don't think it's true, at least not entirely.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 day ago

    It is so sad that people always look for shorter means to a problem solution, I understand it is coded in our DNA to exhaust the least but over the long term it looks increasingly worrying.

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  • [–] 53 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    I was going to argue against this, but i don't feel like doing the research myself.

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    [–] 12 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    dont need a new study, 1 study already said people using AI during HS or COllege makes them inability perform at thier grade education level.

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  • [–] 98 points 2 days ago (5 children)

    LLMs are a competency chipper and credibility solvent.

    My observation from having to deal with entities which have engaged with LLMs, is any competency or credibility they may have had, is eroded proportionally to their level of exposure. It's analogous to experiencing a traumatic brain injury.

    Losing cognitive ability is bad enough, but it's devastating when they never possessed it to begin with.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 day ago

    Deferring all your work to anything or anyone would do the same thing.

    That's not a llm unique problem but a byproduct of not engaging your mind or skills. You can still do that while also using an llm or taking on human help.

    If you hired a human to do everything for you, you also end up becoming a potato.

    The problem is that llms make it too easy for people to actively choose that route because of lack of self discipline or desire to improve.

    But a lot of technology is like that and not just computer tech.

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    [–] 51 points 2 days ago (36 children)

    For the first experiment with 354 participants, one group was tasked with solving 15 basic fraction problems without help, while another had ChatGPT open on the side to use for assistance and to even ask for the answer. The group with AI access started off more accurate than the group without it. Then, after 12 problems, researchers took away the AI tool. Almost immediately, the people in that group stopped solving questions accurately.

    A similar thing happened when they ran the experiment on a second, larger group of 667 participants. Whereas the AI users got answers wrong or gave up entirely when the AI assistance was withdrawn, the group without AI stuck with the task and were more successful at the end.

    Researchers then ran a third experiment with 201 participants and an SAT reading comprehension prompt. The results echoed those from the fraction problems: When the AI tool was removed, persistence and accuracy dropped.

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    [–] 37 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    Jokes on you. I never persisted at doing hard things because I had no idea what I was doing. Now I get into all sorts of shenanigans because I do what ai tells me to do.

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    [–] 26 points 1 day ago (23 children)

    I don't agree with this study and I am not a fan of AI. Replace the AI tool that they used with a calculator. You'd get the same results. Here you are legally cheating on some task because you were told to do it - breezing right along thinking of something cool you are gonna do later and then ... WHAM ! Cheaty tool gets yoinked. Now fuck - I have to think ? I'd probably think fuck it, I'll give it a half asssed shot because fuck them for making it not fun.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    Anecdotally, I have software I wrote entirely by hand, started by hand and ended with ai, and AI from the start. Anything I had ai touch in the last 6 months has caused this for me. I barely have the attention span to read what the agent is planning to do. I can only conceptually review at a high level and direct it that way. It gets worse every week.

    I think part of it is me not spending enough time setting things up so it writes code like I would, so I am reading a strangers code really. But even then, I find myself reading it for no more than 10 seconds and being like "ugh just ask the AI".

    I have caught myself a few times about to ask the AI to change something that I could easily do myself still.

    I know that if I stopped using it for a week and sat down with the code I had generated, I would understand it, but the thought of doing so has somehow become exhausting. It's a real issue.

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