conflate liberal/conservative with the dominant left/right parties in these nations
does not include people who do not identify with one of those dominant parties
have some somewhat unreliable stats magic behind them

A lot of young men in the US are reporting themselves as "not a Democrat or Republican", and that's causing a lot of this proportional shift. I would bet that characterizes a lot of folks on this site who are not conservative.

https://www.vox.com/politics/2024/3/13/24098780/politics-gender-divide-generation-z-youth-men-women

https://www.allendowney.com/blog/2024/01/28/is-the-ideology-gap-growing/

[–] krashmo@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Exactly. I would be almost as upset with being classified as a liberal or a Democrat as I would be a conservative.

[–] kautau@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

At the same time I know many people (my brother included) that claim to be "independent" because they think that the trump camp is somehow outside the conservative camp, and therefore respond "independent" on polls. Because they think "I'm not democrat or conservative, I just want to drain the swamp" and then support trump, who is literally a swamp.

[–] Zexks@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Those ‘unaffiliated’s are just embarrassed republicans. Just like most of the centrists you’ll run across.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 1 points 1 year ago

In the UK, where there actually is a centralist party, most of the "centralists" don't actually vote for them. Which really tells you everything you need to know about centralism. It's not a political ideology, it's just a refusal to engage.

[–] gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

conflate liberal/conservative with the dominant left/right parties in these nations

Why do so many people on Lemmy insist on pretending that liberal/conservative aren't relative terms?

Every single time those words get used with their little l/c to mean "relatively liberal/conservative) I see multiple people go "well ackshully a Liberal is a right wing ideology!"

[–] LwL@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

The actual opposite of conservative in this case would be progressive. Liberal isn't a relative term, progressive is. It's easy enough to tell from context but when there's already no info on how these graphs came to be it just adds to them being questionable.

[–] KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is this.. tilted slightly?

Am I leaning?

[–] lseif@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 year ago

left-leaning, maybe

[–] Spacehooks@reddthat.com 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I sometimes think they turn conservative because women won't date them.

[–] DancingBear@midwest.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In the age of social media I imagine people are actually a lot more antisocial than we used to be…. And if young men and young women are all online more now and actually go out to interact in person less than we used to, this would make it a lot more difficult for young men to interact with the young women long enough to ask them out….

[–] Spacehooks@reddthat.com 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Online is heavily skewed in women's favor unfortunately. I had a female coworker that had 100+ matches on bumble and kept complaining how hard it was too keep track of. She wasn't even very pretty and she had an empty pot for head. Meanwhile male coworkers really struggle. No surprise This will make some males bitter and lash out. Even if they do find a partner Worst part is if the social skills are bad it is a bad relationship. I hope we are not seeing a universe 25 style collapse.

[–] DancingBear@midwest.social 1 points 1 year ago

I wasn’t specifically talking about online dating, but women are generally more desired by men than vice versa, whether online or in person.

I can’t imagine online dating to be useful than for more than a handful of people in my opinion.

I was more saying since we are all online more, we are all interacting in person a lot less, which allows for more organic interactions…

[–] DancingBear@midwest.social 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I can’t remember which app it was, but I tried online dating over a decade ago. I noticed I wasn’t getting very many responses to any messages I sent out, and it was basically after saying yes to everyone and I had spent some time on the app, so I got to the point where I just messaged everyone a generic opener….

I talked to my female roommate at the time and I got a couple generic photos of her, she was a young mid 20’s woman who was very pretty but idk average for a young beautiful woman.

I created a new profile for myself, and also a second profile for her, I let her choose the most attractive photos of me and I chose some dorky not very attractive but still cute I guess photos of her….

She had ten messages before we were even able to upload the first photo after just creating the account.

This doesn’t mean that she got messages from guys who were someone she would consider dating. It just means she got a lot of messages. I think guys don’t realize how many messages the women get. They have to wade through hundreds of “hi how are you doing” messages before they can even start a conversation. Whereas the guys have to send out messages that are unique and capture the attention of ladies to get a conversation started. Neither is ideal, it’s just how it is

[–] Spacehooks@reddthat.com 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's very true and likely why she felt so overwhelmed. No one is really winning. She would have had a really good match in there but drowned in a sea of options.

[–] DancingBear@midwest.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In this case we only left the app open for a couple hours that afternoon before we deleted it, but it’s just anecdotal evidence that show if we are specifically talking about online dating the problems are just as bad for either sex if we are talking about cis heteronormative relationships

[–] Spacehooks@reddthat.com 1 points 1 year ago

A really sad point. Though I think drowning in option is better for self esteem than 0. If males had plenty I doubt we would see such a trend.

[–] sebsch@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The opposite to conservative is progressive, not liberal

[–] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Especially in Europe where liberal is more typically used for economically liberal.

[–] CitizenKong@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Which tend to be conservative socially.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The opposite is Socialism, not progressivism.

[–] Dkarma@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wrong

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In what way? Conservativism is a branch of Liberalism, just like Progressivism. They are all under the Capitalist umbrella of Liberalism. The opposite, therefore, is Socialism.

[–] Peruvian_Skies@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Congratulations, you have successfully redefined imprtant words in a way that makes your understanding of them fundamentally incomoatible with other people's, rendering clear communication impossible.

I don't know why this was your goal, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming it was intentional, because the only alternative is that you are less intelligent than a particularly dense house plant.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Never redefined any of it. Liberalism is the ideology supporting Capitalism, Progressivism is the left side of liberalism and conservativism is the right side. Progressives still support Capitalism, same with conservatives.

[–] CrypticCoffee@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean it isn't. Progressivism only seems to exist as a word in America, because the USA has the red scares, and conflates communism and socialism, and so are scared of the phrase and had to reinvent their own.

In Europe, you have Conservatives (right wing market, socially conservative), Liberals (free market, but with positivity towards social reforms). Socialism or Democratic Socialism (positive social reforms, state involvement, but with democracy). Communism (economic distribution but more autocratic), and Social Democratic (somewhere between Liberal and Democratic Socialist). Socialism is where you're willing to consider the state getting involved in wealth redistribution.

It's better you understand political philosophy and how it is used and applies around the world to truly understand it. You cannot understand the spectrum, if you cannot zoom out from the Overton window.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

That's not what Socialism and Communism are, though. Democratic Socialism itself is a nebulous and meaningless term.