this post was submitted on 23 Apr 2025
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Fuck Cars

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A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!

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[–] Godric@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Me, 15 miles from town, independently waiting for the bus to arrive (it's a hour long ride, and only comes twice a week):

[–] nthavoc@lemmy.today 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Look I am for an efficient mass transit system instead of building all of these perpetually-under-construction-roads. I would happily pay for bus / train tickets to get to work! It would be like a raise not being forced to pay for all that crap illustrated in the comic. I keep seeing comics like this on my front page and it's kind of annoying. It's somehow MY fault I choose to drive a vehicle instead peddling a bike on a path that would be a suicide mission to get to work. How about voting in the local elections instead of cheeky little comics that just seem annoy people? Lots of plans for transit systems get killed at the voting booths nobody goes to. Or not. I don't care. I'm just screaming at the sky now.

[–] LePoisson@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

I fail to see how this comic blames people driving cars for the problem. Just that we should strive to improve how we build our society so that we could have meaningful and good lives without requiring an automobile.

[–] EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

"Cars aren't a symbol of freedom. They are a symbol of dependence in places designed to be prisons without them."

Paraphrased from a book I read (sorry, it was 10+ years ago)

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Might also be noted that cars are a class symbol and a means of engaging in conspicuous consumption.

People who make the most noise about the "freedom" a car affords them are very often people who flout their vehicles a exotic hobbies or luxuries. They are, incidentally, the same folks who denounce bike lanes, bus stops, cross-walks, speed cameras, and parking shortages. Almost as though they don't value freedom in the abstract at all.

[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

This doesn't make any sense. The only way to move around without depending on other companies is by walking, and there's no way that can replace cars, trains, buses, bicycles, etc.

Not depending on anyone else is not a sensible goal. We live in a society.

[–] Initiateofthevoid@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The only way to move around without depending on other companies is by walking, and there’s no way that can replace cars, trains, buses, bicycles, etc.

If you have all of those options available, you can never be stranded when one of those options fails.

But with a car-centric society, all it takes is a single point of failure, and you are no longer free to move about the society.

They are not advocating for society to be less interdependent. They are explaining that a car-centric society has less freedom of movement, because the "independence" of a car is a lie.

[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Well that's just nonsense. There are enough downsides to cars without having to make up fringe lunacy like this.

[–] Initiateofthevoid@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (1 children)

Nonsense and fringe lunacy... like asking for multiple options when it comes to transportation? Recognizing that building redundancies into our infrastructure is actually more efficient than relying on a one-size-fits-all solution?

A car breaking down can completely derail an individual's day. A truck breaking down on a highway can derail a city's day. The less the person or city needs cars to function, the less likely they are to be stuck when something goes wrong.

[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

like asking for multiple options when it comes to transportation

No, like trying to say that cars don't give you independence because they need insurance and servicing. That's simply not the kind of independence people are talking about.

It's like saying metro systems aren't convenient because they are really difficult to build. It's confusing two different things.

A car breaking down can completely derail an individual’s day.

So? You know what can also derail your day?

[–] Initiateofthevoid@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

That’s simply not the kind of independence people are talking about.

Yes it is. People praise the car as the ultimate freedom because they imagine that they can take that car anywhere. But the moment they have a problem with their car, they literally can't go anywhere.

Everyone has a story about how their car didn't start, or about the mechanic that didn't actually fix the problem, or how they're still waiting on a part and can't fix it until tomorrow. Plenty of people are stuck waiting on the roadside for hours waiting for a tow. Plenty of people are stuck waiting for days to hear back from their insurance company on if repairs are covered or who will pay for it or which mechanic is allowed to do the work.

So? You know what can also derail your day?

Do you... think that's a gotcha? How many times has your train derailed? Is this a common problem in your life? Don't you hate it when your employee doesn't show up to work all the time because his train derailed?

It's so ridiculously uncommon that it may as well be a rounding error compared to car accidents and incidents.

[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Yes it is. People praise the car as the ultimate freedom because they imagine that they can take that car anywhere.

They can!

But the moment they have a problem with their car, they literally can’t go anywhere.

Nobody is under the illusion that cars never break! Come on dude. Trains and buses are hardly infallible either!

Everyone has a story about how their car didn’t start, or about the mechanic that didn’t actually fix the problem, or how they’re still waiting on a part and can’t fix it until tomorrow.

Everyone has 10 stories about trains being cancelled or buses not showing up. That's life. Completely irrelevant to the fact that cars give you independence.

How many times has your train derailed? Is this a common problem in your life?

Obviously I was not talking about actually derailment. That was obvious to anyone not being deliberately stupid. Trains are delayed or cancelled all the time. Much more frequently than cars break down.

It's becoming clear that you live somewhere where there are no trains or buses so you have no actual experience of them and imagine them to be perfect.

Everyone has 10 stories about trains being cancelled or buses not showing up. That’s life. Completely irrelevant to the fact that cars give you independence.

So... again... if you have access to a train, a bus, and a car, then one single failure won't stop you. If you only have access to a car, a single failure will stop you. I don't know how to make that any more clear. It's not about a train being better than a car, it's about only having a car.

But, yes, trains and buses in a functioning mass transit system are insanely more reliable than cars. That's not just personal experience, though it's quite an assumption to make! That's just statistics.

[–] kimara@sopuli.xyz 24 points 2 days ago (2 children)

One addition to this is also winter upkeep, which is very relevant in Finland.

People like to talk about "winter cycling", because it's somehow so much different from "every other season cycling". Mainly it comes down to winter upkeep; snow plowing and such. Then some people complain how nobody rides in the winter and they shouldn't use too much budget for it.

It would be fun to see people talk about "winter driving". How much we actually spend making driving possible during the winter.

[–] duhbasser@lemm.ee 11 points 2 days ago

Where I live in the US that’s in the millions, hundreds of millions even. Also, if that budget dries up then they don’t plow shit. They’ll usually get an emergency fund but it takes a few days, while it’s snowing…

It's not just spending money. In my city, we're poisoning the groundwater with road salt to support winter driving. One well near me has sodium levels in the water high enough that the water utility has issued a no-drink advisory for people with hypertension.

[–] Washedupcynic@lemm.ee 9 points 2 days ago

I grew up with great public transit, and having access to a bicycle, (NYC.) In my 20s I realized that attempting to own and maintain a car would be so expensive that I would not be able to save money for the future. I ride my bike everywhere. If I want to go somewhere more than 50 miles away, or where transit doesn't go, I rent a car. I rent a car maybe 2x a year tops. Depending on how long I'm renting the car I probably spend $400 a year on rentals + insurance. My last bike I had for 20 years. Cost me $1400 brand new, spread that cost out over 20 years, owning the bike cost me $70 a year. It was easy to repair myself, and the tools to repair it were inexpensive to purchase. Fuck cars indeed.

[–] bitwolf@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Thank you for wording it so eloquently.

I learned quickly the car took away my freedom. I needed a car to get a job.

I was suddenly forced to have a job to pay an auto loan. By the time I paid the loan I needed a new car as the first broke down.

Then I needed my job to pay for the 2nd car. If I lived closer to the city with public transport I likely would have never gotten a car in the first place.

Cars are basically a life tax

[–] tasho@lemmy.blahaj.zone 29 points 2 days ago (1 children)

cute! I love informative comics like this.

people always jump to assuming creating an infrastructure that requires less reliance on cars means a flat out ban on cars when really we just desperately need more alternatives to being stuck on the car-only model. of course, rural areas and disabilities and such will mean that cars are sometimes necessary, but there's so much that a fully functional public transit system can do!!

[–] ZDL@mstdn.social 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

@tasho @grue As soon as they leap to the assumption that improving public transit means banning cars I know they're arguing from bad faith. (Or they're stupid. Either way they're not worth talking with.)

[–] tasho@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 day ago

exactly - I saw a couple of bad faiths in the comments and I just thought like "c'mon guys, be serious."

[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 16 points 2 days ago (5 children)

Can confirm.

My car has been "on loan" to my parents for a year. I'm lucky to live in an area with decent public trans, but my sense of freedom is definitely vastly diminished.

[–] SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org 11 points 2 days ago (1 children)

You have public trans? Can you just like rent them for a while or how does it work?

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[–] Demdaru@lemmy.world 9 points 2 days ago (4 children)

...i have slight beef with that.

  1. We made cars more complicated than they need to be due to electronic systems and all that. I don't say that we should simply go back, that's dumb. But I cannot help but wonder if a line of simple, less advanced ICE cars promoted on their ease of maintenance wouldn't get popular with, for example, rural folks. After all, being able to fix the beast yourself would lover your costs a lot.
  2. Walkable cities are great, I know cause I live in one. My city (or town?) has around 7 km length (at least the parts that matter). Distance an average person can go in ~70, maybe 80 minutes by foot. But if I wanted to hit the relatively nearby lake or beach, getting there by foot is another story. And yeah, bikes exists and make it easier but if I need to hit another city that is 60km from here...yeah.
  3. Author also forgot that these companies won't fail, because these are not "one and only" of each in the world. Each contry, hell, each county has multiple of them. It's highly unrealistic for them to all fail at the same time.
[–] Lv_InSaNe_vL@lemmy.world 13 points 2 days ago (3 children)

We didn't make cars more complicated because "of the electronics" or "because we had to".

Car companies make cars more complicated because they make huge amounts of money from warranties, maintenance that you can't do yourself for some reason, and of course the leases.

Cars being as complicated and impossible to work on as they are today is because line must go up. Everything else is propaganda.

[–] andros_rex@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago

maintenance that you can’t do yourself for some reason

Also helps hide shoddy low quality parts.

The condensers on 2017-2021 Honda Civics are basically guaranteed to fail. There’s a warranty, but the only people who can open up the AC are the dealerships, who have been trained to find some speck of dust to justify denying the warranty.

It really fucking sucks - I’d love the option of being able to make some money on doordash, but the “reliable” Honda Civic I bought gets up to 100+ F with the air on full blast.

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[–] xavier666@lemm.ee 2 points 1 day ago

But I cannot help but wonder if a line of simple, less advanced ICE cars promoted on their ease of maintenance wouldn’t get popular with, for example, rural folks. After all, being able to fix the beast yourself would lover your costs a lot

No car company will make a car which is maintainable by a common man because it affects their bottom line. We can dream of alternate concepts (open-source car design/metal 3D printing) but government regulations and lobbying will kill such concepts. We have to focus on the current scenario.

But if I wanted to hit the relatively nearby lake or beach, getting there by foot is another story

The majority of the anti-car people are not saying "destroy all cars. Nobody should have cars". We are just saying "please don't make our entire lives car-dependent. Please design cities/governments/social life in such a way so that it's accessible to non-car folks."

I also have a car, but I only use it for going to places which are not reachable by public transport. For traveling to work, I use public transport 5 days a week. Cars should be (IMO) a recreational mode of transport.

Author also forgot that these companies won’t fail, because these are not “one and only” of each in the world

I agree with you; they won't fail. However, they surely can make our lives hell if they want to. This is a power that I don't want them to have over me.

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[–] RymrgandsDaughter@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago (2 children)

true but America hates public transportation

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[–] psx_crab@lemmy.zip 18 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Ain't that true. As a car mechanic(in asia), i used to not think about it for a long time, but lately the cost of owning a car seems to bug me to no end. Often in busy day, someone will come in with a breakdown which might take a few hours to do because of the workload, and the reply i get from them is "can you do mine first? I'm in a hurry and i need the car, without it i can't get anywhere". Or someone came in with a badly maintained car, where they have to delay a lot of simple but crucial repair because they're short on money. Or ignore an oil leak while topping up oil constantly because they have no time to get it fixed, which sometimes cost even more in total.

I just paid nearly 1/4 of my monthly salary to fix my 20 years old car, and that's only for the part. Can't get a used car because i need the cash, can't get a new car because i don't wanna have more mortgage. It's crippling if you're poor. It's simply bullshit when people use the poor to justify car-centric development.

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[–] callyral@pawb.social 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Also, people younger than the legal age for driving are unable to get around safely and independently if they live somewhere car-dependent. I know this from personal experience (although where I live car dependency is not the only problem of course)

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