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617

EU will never recognize Crimea as Russian, Kallas says (kyivindependent.com)

submitted 1 day ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

40 comments fedilink hide all child comments

The European Union will never recognize the Russian-occupied Crimean peninsula as legally Russian, the bloc's top diplomat Kaja Kallas told Agence France-Presse (AFP) on April 22.

Kallas' comments come in response to reports that the recognition of Crimea as Russian territory is being considered as part of a U.S.-backed proposal to end the war in Ukraine.

"Crimea is Ukraine," Kallas told the AFP.

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[–] UnrepententProcrastinator@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Doesn't that make shit like what Russia did and Israel is doing right now just a valid long term strategy?

Democracy will resume when justice will be served.

[–] jaxxed@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 hours ago

Which "this". Kalas saying the the EU will never agree to annexation may have low impact, but it isn't capitulation.

[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world 58 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Good so they should recognize Russia as the illegal invader and help Ukraine with personnel and weapons.

[–] jaxxed@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago

I think that the EU, Nato and the Ukraine armed forces would be best served with equipment and intel support, without the addition of foreign troops. If they were stocked to the gills, and well served with intel, then there would be no questions about occupation, despite current morale and troop concerns..

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 55 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That's what they've been doing for years already..

[–] Auli@lemmy.ca -3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

They've sent personnel. Who has?

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The EU

[–] UnrepententProcrastinator@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 day ago

I think he meant soldiers.

Yeah they are sending training staff and other logistics but no EU soldier on the field as of yet as this could be interpreted as a declaration of war.

[–] nkat2112@sh.itjust.works 28 points 1 day ago

Good. Thank you.

[–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago

Good.

[–] BigMikeInAustin@lemmy.world 21 points 1 day ago

Good!

[+] mydude@lemmy.world -44 points 1 day ago (13 children)

What does the people living in Crimea want?

[–] el_bhm@lemm.ee 28 points 1 day ago

Slightly wrong question to ask.

russia has a history of genocide by resettlements. A lot of crimeans got forcibly resettled to make room for russians.

Ask pre 2013 crimeans.

[–] Realitaetsverlust@lemmy.zip 18 points 1 day ago

The ones that were murdered or forcibly resettled or the russians that moved there after the annexion?

[–] HK65@sopuli.xyz 17 points 1 day ago

In case you're asking this in good faith, Crimea has been the victim of Russian settler-colonialism, so the people livinh there are the invaders in a lot of cases.

It's like calling a referendum on Gaza conducted by Israel the will of the people.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 39 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Hard to know for sure since polls and elections conducted by the Russian government are about as reliable as my cats' reporting on whether or not there's food in their bowls.

Most likely, the majority consider themselves Ukrainian but are too oppressed by the occupying forces for their voices to be heard.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 29 points 1 day ago

Crimea voted for independence from the USSR just as other oblasts did. There once was an independence movement but it lost itself between "It'd actually be quite hard for such a small nation" and "Ukraine treats us fairly". No talk but among fringes of the fringe about joining Russia. Good relations with Russia, sure, but that ship now has sailed.

...and that's with the USSR shipping lots of Russians into Crimea over the centuries, diluting the Tatar population. They did even more of that now and those new arrivals will probably, and rightly, be considered illegal immigrants down the line, and deported. Which is mild treatment because settling in occupied territories is a war crime.

[–] CaptainBasculin@lemmy.ml 32 points 1 day ago

As a Tatar whose grandparents were driven away from Crimea in ethnic cleansing conditions by Russia; I wouldnt want Russia to control there.

but again maybe i have a bit of personal bias idk

[–] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 day ago

The ones who were living there when they were invaded or the ones who are still alive?

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The “referendum” they conducted was not at all an accurate representation of the resident’s opinions.

Are you trying to say that you trust literally any electoral mechanisms administered by Russia at this point?

[–] Auli@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Who the fuck cares. You dint invade another country their are other ways to achieve the goal if they wanted to join Russia.

[–] DicJacobus@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Russia cant compete economically, technologically, or diplomatically, all they have is violence and coercion, No one except chauvinists would ever -want- to join Russia, so if Russia wants someone to join them, they really only have one card, war.

[–] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de -5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

My sibling in Christ we do not tell people their own identity they get to decide for themselves?

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world -2 points 1 day ago

That's obviously untrue. We've spent centuries endorsing invasion of other countries and obliteration of their native cultures.

NAFOs are very defensive of Ukraine because its territory that was staked out by Western Europe after the fall of the USSR. No takesies-backsies.

[–] MoonlightFox@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago

Given the choice between living in a authoritarian oligarchy without freedom vs a imperfect european liberal democracy, is not a tough choice for most.

Without knowing a lot about the older historical context here, I would imagine that the people of Russia and Ukraine have been fairly close throughout modern history. They are neighbouring countries with a language that is very similar, and was both a part of the USSR.

To me this attack on Ukraine seems like betraying family and/or friends. Ukraine did nothing besides existing peacefully. Russia decided to take land and citizens from Ukraine by annexing Crimea violently. They have continued killing and destroying Ukraine for years to seize land as their own. I have a tough time imagining Ukrainians in Crimea supporting the killing of their fellow countrymen by their violent neighbour for no good reason.

Since Crimea now is annexed by Russia we can't trust any polls from there either.

I guess Russia should just give it back to Ukraine, and then they can do a legitimate vote. Russia obviously won't do that, because they know how that will end.

What is the saying? If you love something, then set it free. If it was meant to be, it will come back to you. Russia should use that tactic with all regions of Ukraine that it is currently occupying. I am suuuure it will work out for Russia 😂

[–] Renohren@lemmy.today 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

To be recognised as ukrainian. What else?

[–] nico198X@feddit.nl 1 points 1 day ago

they voted to be independent Ukraine after the Soviet Union fell in 91.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world -4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I love how this is getting downvoted, particularly given that "Crimeans don't want to be a part of Russia!" and "They'd rather die than be occupied!" were big talking points to justify Ukraine's bombing of the territory.

[–] UnrepententProcrastinator@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

He's being downvoted because it's russian bullshit to distract form the fact that crimea was fucking invaded and taken through violence. After that nobody should care about democratic assent. First get the russians out then ask the people who got invaded a while back wherever they are now.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago

it’s russian bullshit to distract form the fact that crimea was fucking invaded and taken through violence

Who has forgotten about the 2014 invasion? But we've had similar referendums in Iraq and Afghanistan under US occupation. We've accepted votes in Northern Ireland and Indian Kashmir and under coup governments in Chile, Spain, S. Korea, Panama, and Hawaii at face value. Clearly, violent occupation does not disqualify subsequent democratic referendums.

After that nobody should care about democratic assent.

If violence committed by a state institution disqualifies a democracy from functioning, show me which country qualifies as a democratic institution? Territorial control is predicated on violence. Ukrainian territory was only originally under Russian dominion because it was wrested from the Nazis, who wrested it from the Soviets who wrested it from the Russian Imperialists who wrested it from the Ottomans, etc, etc.

At some point, the violence has to end and democracy has to begin. If human life continues to be less important than property rights, the killing never ends.

[+] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de -14 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Why in the fuck are you getting downvoted for this more than reasonable question???

[–] Maalus@lemmy.world 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Because it isn't a reasonable question, it is a russian propaganda question that leads to "but they voted to join Russia" which you then need to counter further with "with literal soldiers standing there and checking your ballot for the right answer".

[–] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de -3 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

I don't understand why Russias illegitimate referendum gives the EU the authority to decide tho?

[–] nico198X@feddit.nl 3 points 8 hours ago

Ukraine decides. EU is supporting the intergrity of Ukraine which was unjustly violated by Russia.

[–] Maalus@lemmy.world 3 points 9 hours ago

What do you mean? Crimea was Ukrainian, it was invaded and then pulled into Russia. EU doesn't have to "decide" anything, it was an invasion and against the law, therefore invalid.